Is it legal for a president to lobby a state legislature? I guess so, but the constitutional implications are a bit worrisome.
Obama’s “political machine worked in close coordination” with Wisconsin labor unions to organize protests there and in other states, according to the Washington Post.
Their cause might be just, opposing cuts in benefits for public employees, but the proposed bill in the state legislature has nothing to do with the federal government. The Constitution’s Tenth Amendment supposedly reserves power over this sort of issue exclusively to the states.
You’d think Obama’s troubles with Congress keep him busy enough without picking on a state legislature.
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63 Responses to Obama’s Wisconsin Power Play
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- A Senate About Nothing (50)
sjwny: This country was born out of revolution. Perhaps the time has come again to revolt against a government whose members choose to enrich themselves, instead of representing us and our future well being. I do not call for...
+9jace: Sjwny, Great post and well said. As for myself I prefer a healthy dose of symbolism attached to all my protests. Perhaps a guillotine set up on the capital steps and the occasional tumbrel parked in the limo. spaces?
+4
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coloradobob: Going to the “woolly headed stone cutter” tomorrow. That 2 tons of limestone I bought, has 2 flat sides . I’ll get “TOOTER” cut into a one foot rock. , and see what it looks like. Then I...
+7xrepublican: ! SATIRE ALERT ! It’s too bad the Pommies no longer have torture chambers with which to induce confessions. A few waterboardings could break this murdoch case wide open. According to dick cheney, sleep...
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Jamie: The Plum Line: Romney’s plans would explode deficit
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- A Senate About Nothing (50)
Woo Hoo -- Hand me a picket sign
Craig,
Interesting question, but in this case the President is not usurping a reserved power, but exercising his First Amendment right. No?
cajunjoe, maybe — but so long as he is not using the power of his office to intervene in state affairs
It will still come down to a vote of the Wisconsin State Legislature…
http://blogs.cqrollcall.com/trailmix/2011/02/budget-wars.html#comment-329271
TIR
As usual you make assumptions without asking. You put your talking points into the mouths of others without bothering to find out if that is what the other side actually thinks. “You Liberals” is hard the way to start and exchange of ideas.
I’m fine with raising the age of retirement as long as a business can’t fire someone just because they are older and cost more by virtue of wage or medical expenses. Ageism is running rampant
I’m fine with voluntarily means testing or refusing certain Medicare services. It would be more cost effective to remove the profit motive from Medicine by having non profit well care, but an opt out clause is a viable alternative as long as low income receive care as well. I’m even fine with limiting services for those in the latter days of life. If you are over 75 and the choice is another surgery or palliative care in a hospice … pay for the hospice.
Cut subsidies for corporate farms and encourage family farms and the “slow cook” movement is much better for over all health, environment and bio diversity, while being less costly.
Planned Parenthood is already split. It’s just that right wing wackos insist on killing the doctors who provide birth control because they also provide abortions.
So this “Liberal” agrees on all of the above points you mentioned. I couldn’t recognize you if your knee stopped jerking so I will have to disagree about eliminating the Departments of Education and Energy since both are vitally necessary to the future well being of this country. We can probably find areas of agreeing in reforms, but total elimination would be just plain stupid.
Craig,
Did you make those same protestations when W interjected himself into a family dispute in Florida? I can’t remember but I’m falling on the side of “doubt it”
I’m curious, what does your friend Mudcat think of all these goings on with the union busting?
Lastly, here is my zen, very tin hat question of the day…
If the Republicans have no problems making up financial emergencies to destabilize the economy in order to bust unions and destroy programs meant to benefit the general public, why is it crazy to think they wouldn’t create a terror event in order to start a war…
So does that mean we’ll see truthers back on the airwaves soon?
Social Security is easily fixed except for our panty-waisted politicians of both parties. A very slow raise of the retirement age, and lifting the income cap would pretty much do it. You could also offer an option of means testing at retirement and not have the cap raised on your income. Medicare is the hard problem…and national security spending.
On a different note,
Is it a shock that a person with no heart has problems placing a hand over her heart during the pledge?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/18/sarah-palin-leopard-print-shoes_n_825085.html
Bear
She had her hand on her sternum while touching her breast because she wanted to be stern about her stance on breast feeding.
Obama speaking out is just his using his bully pulpit.
That’s certainly all that W would have been accused of doing if the tables were turned.
As for the Prez’s political machine being involved, how closely? Just supporting WI’s team by way of a little, free consulting?
How soon before we ask Boehner, Pelosi and the whole Hee-Haw gang to give up some of their benefits?
The top can’t keep expecting everyone else to carry the burden & Obama isn’t all sunshine and socialism, either.
“…President Obama’s new budget…would cut billions of dollars from Housing and Urban Development…estimated 15 percent cut would leave North Texas…would lose their Section 8 homes…”
“We feel it’s very irresponsible for congress to throw elderly disabled people and children out of their homes while the wealthy are allowed to take $181 billion interest deductions on vacation homes.”
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Texans-ask-lawmakers-to-Have-a-Heart-116194259.html
Jamie….. ROFL!
I got an email from a Republican friend the other day complaining about what a bummer it’ll be if everything in our local town budget gets passed and her property taxes go up. She wants to spend the money on first class airfare tickets for her and hubby’s upcoming trip to Hawaii instead. I love this person….. but the greed some Republicans display stuns me.
Renee,
The irony of your friend is that if the budget axe falls as yoru friend wants, there will be less cops on the street to protect her from the angry poor folks that will be robbing her house with a gun they bought because their 2nd amendment rights allowed them to protect themselves in public…
‘Bahraini security forces have opened fire on anti-government protesters…”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12509658
Whatever the outcome, maybe just be grateful that, today, you live in Wisconsin.
The headline of the weekend regarding the Wisconsin thing…
Texas Dems To Fleeing Wisconsin Lawmakers: ‘Call Your Spouses For Conjugal Visits’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/18/texas-dems-to-wisconsin-lawmakers-conjugal-visits_n_825033.html
Blue,
With the governor threatening to call out the National Guard, why do you think he wouldn’t resort to someone using their “2nd amendment” right to carry a gun and accidentally shoot someone to create a kent state riot to blame on the union people
I think Obama’s political machine should be involved
I think Democrats need a 50 state strategy. The unions have taken a real beating from the media and @#$% goopers and the unions have stood strong for workers rights and benefits
Obama should be backing them up.
Organized labor is an important part of the capitalist system
goopers and other maroons who fail to recognize that will find their ideas consigned to the trash heap of history* I don’t know whose quote that is….but I like it
btw a hearty welcome to lurker-turned-commenter TheRealTruth. we have a LOT of lurkers out there, jump in anytime!
http://blogs.cqrollcall.com/trailmix/2011/02/budget-wars.html#comment-329250
Jamie, I’m with ya. Hand me a picket sign too. I did walk a picket line in both Toledo and Milwaukee. Truckers stopped & joined us.
Time to IMPEACH Gov. Scott Kevin Walker (R) Wisconsin, post haste. He’s been gov since 1/3/11. That’s TOO long. Off with his head.
tt
The Middle East is like a brush fire.
I find the concept of lurking interesting. I don’t lurk. If I’m there, I’m there for a reason. And I let that reason be known, usually.
tt
Public employees are easy targets. And as for taxes, they pay taxes TOO, damn it.
tt
RR, yep. “but the greed some Republicans display stuns me.” And then they’re self righteous about it.
tt
Washington -- The amount of large fish in the world’s oceans has fallen by two-thirds in the last 100 years, and the global fish supply will continue to decline even as human demand for fish rises, researchers said Friday.
“Will there be fish left in 2050?” Villy Christensen of Canada’s University of British Columbia asked at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Washington. “Yes, there will be fish left, but it will be a different ocean than what our parents and grandparents knew and what we see now.”
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/368056,scientists-decline-large-fish.html
CBob, guess i better get that fish camp started by 2050
This is “constitutionally worrisome”? How so, Craig? Thank God you were probably too young to read newspapers back when Eisenhower federalized the National Guard to force Orval-the-Bigot Faubus in Arkansas to let blacks go to high school.
As for myself, I’m more worried about the consitutional implications of a Supreme Court Justice teaching Sunday School classes to ignorant new congressmen.
From the , “There’s gotta be a joke in here somewhere file” :
Egypt military junta launches Facebook page
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Egypt_military_junta_launches_Facebook_page_999.html
New start -- up companies :
Apps for Junta’s
Play “Whack -A- Protester” on your I-Phone.
Craig -
We can open our own whaling fleet, the Japanese seem to be getting out of the business.
I don’t want to advance another tin foil theory but with the NFL owners wanting players to play more games per year for at least $1 billion less
and with GOP wanting to ban unions and make them the scourge of the earth
throw in the repeal of the 14th amendment and Mississippi wanting to commemorate the founder of the triple K,
Can we surmise that the party that staked a claim to ending slavery is going towards the ultimate flip flop? lol
Actually, poobah, (and I truly don’t know the answer to this) the bill the governor wants the Wisconsin legislature to pass -- which would restrict what collective bargaining rights to some WI public employees have -- may infringe on federal labor representation laws. Or it may not -- I know WI has a CB law re: state employees that has been in place for 52 years, and it may govern. The troubling aspect of the bill is that it would remove most of those rights, makes a sham of the remaining CB area of negotiation (salary) and in addition imposes in effect a salary reduction (through forced contribution to pension plan), while trying to dictate a number of restrictions on traditional union activities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/us/12unions.html?_r=1
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/17/ap/national/main20032689.shtml
I haven’t been able to find a decent analysis of the bill, and the 144 pages of text is more than my employer would want me to read instead of doing stuff to make money.
TheRealTruth, …… Keep it “pity”. I like my truth “pity” whether it’s real or not.
http://blogs.cqrollcall.com/trailmix/2011/02/obamas-wisconsin-power-play.html#comment-329297
Lard, enforcing a Supreme Court decision was well within Eisenhower’s presidential powers
http://blogs.cqrollcall.com/trailmix/2011/02/obamas-wisconsin-power-play.html#comment-329279
Bear, the Shiavo case was a congressional bill he signed (misguided but certainly within his powers)
Now I am not wedded to this “tin foil” theory, but those examples don’t compare — unless our House Counsel Pogo is right (in which case the Obama Admin can sue WI if the bill passes): http://blogs.cqrollcall.com/trailmix/2011/02/obamas-wisconsin-power-play.html#comment-329303
all i’m saying folks is i’m not keen on presidents using their office to muck about in state-exclusive matters, no matter how just the cause
Don’t forget that the bill would strip collective bargaining rights for all state employee unions, except the 3 that supported and campaigned for Walker last fall…
Craig, I can see your point of view, but how does the Obama campaign folks getting horny for a fight compare with Karl Rove’s use of the West Wing to get anti gay marriage initiatives on ballots to drive votes in 2004?
It sucks that we are now finding another point of commonality as we build our presidential oreo cookie of crap, but isn’t this a good for goose/gander situation?
Jamie and tiptoe…Fling me a picket sign, too, and I’ll join you and the protesters. As a longtime school administrator (now retired), I’m no huge fan of the teachers’ unions, but both sides have their purposes.
My biggest gripe with the teachers’ unions is that they often end up “defending the indefensible”…been on the other side of that more times than I care to reflect on. That said, the power to collectively bargain…and to defend that which is defensible…is too important to lose. Also, allowing the forces of big business to push us further into unrestrained and poorly regulated capitalism is folly of the highest order.
Teaching…done well…is one of the most difficult jobs I’ve ever done or been called on to observe. There is tremendous pressure put on teachers, both for what goes on in their classrooms, and for contributing to school life in a myriad other ways (sometimes without compensation). Then…you get to go home and try to engage in some semblance of family life (or social life, if you’re single) before you begin grading papers and/or working on lesson plans. All this for what really isn’t exceptional pay. It has long been understood that a relatively good benefits package is part of the compensation for the relatively low pay teachers enjoy.
Mr. Walker needs to rethink his position as a tool for the Koch brothers and their ilk…just before he’s recalled….
I applaud the President for getting involved in the Wisconsin mess.
I have long been disappointed at his lack of leadership on key issues. His actions regarding Wisconsin are a welcome surprise.
If the attempted destruction of the American middle class and unions doesn’t concern the President, I don’t know what would.
Isn’t the Washington Post a little suspect as the presenter of this assessment of the Obama administration’s involvement?
If help has been dispatched, however, I say more power to them. If the leader of the Democratic party shouldn’t help stand up for their stated philosophy, who should?
http://blogs.cqrollcall.com/trailmix/2011/02/obamas-wisconsin-power-play.html#comment-329306
Bear, i did not like Rove’s meddling either. It’s one thing for a president to merely express his opinion — and quite another to direct his political office to intervene. The presidency has already grown beyond its constituional limits more than enough.
An incredible 110° temperature swing in 1 week in Oklahoma
The temperature in Bartlesville, Oklahoma shot up to a record 82°F yesterday, just seven days after the city hit -28°F on February 10. This 110°F temperature change has to be one of the greatest 1-week temperature swings in U.S. history. The -31°F that was recorded in nearby Nowata last week has now been certified by the National Weather Service as the new official all-time coldest temperature ever recorded in Oklahoma. What’s more, the 27 inches of snow that fell on Spavinaw, Oklahoma during the February 8 – 9 snowstorm set a new official state 24-hour snowfall record. The previous record was 26?, set on March 28, 2009, in Woodward and Freedom.
A 100+ degree temperature change in just six days is a phenomenally rare event. I checked the records for over twenty major cities in the Midwest in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Wyoming, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, and Montana, and could not find any examples of a 100-degree temperature swing in so short a period of time. The closest I came was a 108° swing in temperature in fourteen days at Valentine, Nebraska, from -27°F on March 11, 1998 to 82°F on March 25, 1998. Valentine also had a 105°F temperature swing in fifteen days from November 29, 1901 (71°F) to December 14, 1901 (-34°F.) Our weather historian, Christopher C. Burt, lists the world record for fastest 24-hour change in temperature as the 103°F warm-up from -54° to 49° that occurred on January 14 – 15, 1972, during a chinook wind in Lowe, Montana. This week’s remarkable roller coaster ride of temperatures in Oklahoma is truly a remarkable event that has few parallels in recorded history.
http://www.wunderground.com/ blog/ JeffMasters/ comment.html?entrynum=1751#commenttop
Dick Armey (why do so many Republicans name their male children Dick???) and his Tea Party are now pouring several million dollars into a plan to bus in counter-protesters in Wisconsin…according to Thom Hartmann.
harborwoman, so nice to see you back on the trail
We only managed an 81 F degree change .
Today In History
Today is the publication date for what just might be “The Great American Novel” : Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain.
When a book still has impact 126 years after it’s first appearance, it is probably well worth reading.
Tea Party are now pouring several million dollars into a plan to bus in counter-protesters in Wisconsin.
Where they will be issued camels, and whips.
Thanks, Craig! You know me…I define sporadic participation.
Laughing at C’Bob…better keep the local zoos under watch…and perhaps put an extra lock on the local dominatrix’ supply cabinet….
I’m still a proud member of my state and national education association.
I advocated for members for 30 years and never did I observe any attempts to keep bad teachers on the job.
My greatest pleasure was working with adminstrators who understood their responsibilities under the law and the labor contract.
A good adminstrator who identifies areas that need to be improved and works with the union to give the employee the opportunity to improve, is worth his/her weight in gold.
Very few grievances of problemjs occurred when good administrators were in place.
So much conventional wisdom is just plain bunk. It is repeated over and over and over again and people begin to believe it.
Craig…. it’s to see you participating here too…
“It is repeated over and over and over again and people begin to believe it.”….. OD… that is the classic definition of propaganda… something the GOP have become masters at….
Jamie…. haven’t read Huck Finn in awhile… I need to rectify that…. we own a very nice copy of that and Tom Sawyer we bought in Hannibal Missouri… need to dig it out.
oooops….
I forgot the word “nice” in that post to you, Craig….
ha, RR, yes I too am often just a lurker, but never far away
Someone needs to instruct the Tea Party on the term “You Get What You Pay For”. I have no doubt that there is “waste, fraud, and abuse” not to mention outright foolishness in government expenditures but …
If the population increases by 20 million in a decade and you want to cut funding back before the increase in human beings started because you don’t want to raise taxes something necessary will be sacrificed.
You could be on the next bridge that falls down or the next bumper to bumper jam for lack of highway funds or unable to get a degreed education or a plane that crashes for lack of air control or just too close to a bomb because security suffers.
Politicians left, right, and center need to be judged on the product they are producing and every expenditure measured by what it accomplishes. I’m truly sick of politicos who come across as being too dense to hold any other kind of job.
Having been an employment lawyer but never a labor lawyer, my familiarity with TH CB provisions and the like are buried in the folds of my grey (or is it whte?) matter along with about 95% of the other useless (after law school) stuff I learned while spending way to much for a law school education. So hell, I ddon’t know whether my musings are right, wrong, or off the issue.
I tend to agree with Craig -- beyond the bully pulpit (and maybe a little staff level arm twisting) when it comes to legilative pressure the power of the office of the president should be restricted to lobbying Congress. Nuthin inappropriate to letting his personal views be known, but there is that 10th amendment thing out there. If he thinks the state is doing something that violates Fed law, he has a Justice Department to take action.
“Don’t forget that the bill would strip collective bargaining rights for all state employee unions, except the 3 that supported and campaigned for Walker last fall…”
Bear, I heard that, but haven’t been able to find anything that documents it. Which 3 would be exempted? Police I’m guessing, and which others?
Pogo…Firefighters are one, and I’m not sure of the other.
psst, craig, you didn’t respond to lard’s 1:40 post.
well, yes you did. oops.
“….close to 100 members of the Republican house caucus were in Congress when they were given a budget surplus by Bill Clinton and presided over the massive debt accumulated under George W. Bush.”
real truth, and how many of our present complaining senators were also a party to splurging the surplus?
btw, welcome aboard.
Bear, curious -- firefighters were specifically mentioned aas being a hit at the protests.
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/blog/article_375fdcbe-3b79-11e0-9e82-001cc4c002e0.html
“One of the most emotional moments of the budget repair bill protests in Madison came Thursday night as off-duty union firefighters marched through the Capitol in full regalia.
“The crowd exploded in cheering that actually drowned out the bagpipes accompanying members of Firefighters Local 311.”
The third group is state troopers -- just saw it in this article.
“Gov. Scott Walker’s budget repair bill specifically exempts firefighters, police and the state patrol from the pending law’s provisions that would prevent public employees from collective bargaining on anything except wages.”
Can’t wait for the explanation of that.
OD, they don’t know what tenure is, either…
Well, this has been one of those, so I’m calling it.
Have a good, long weekend.
Dammit, should have supported that union when the Dems were trying to unionize the enlisted military back in the mid 70s. Reason? Today I received notice that my fed income tax withholding on the retired retainer on which Stinky and I survive is going from $0 to $25 every month. Damned Republicans. Give them a foot and they’ll take a yard.
What’s the shortest route to Illinois? Solidarity with the Wisconsinites!!
And greetings to our new denizen of the deep, Really True!
Pogo,
The three unions that were exempted were as follows:
Police
Firefighters
State Patrol
I’ve read reports that the Firefighters union will join the protest in support of their union brothers and sisters…
Could someone please start a countdown clock for the recall of Governor Walker because we’ll see that campaign waged next year
lst sentence of ap’s ohlemacher story on the sen six “tackling entitlements” asked: “Is anyone going to fix Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid before they overwhelm the federal government?”
he and the six left out the biggest gov’t overwhelming entitlement of all. defense budget. at least the deficit reduction commission addressed it.
btw, the goper cuts plus their reluctance to rein in def dollars seem to be some sort of population control effort. put the old folks on the ice floes, don’t fund healthcare for the poor to get rid of them and top it all off with more money to send troops to tragic war fates.
Pogo, those 3 unions were exempted because they were the 3 unions that endorsed Walkers candidacy…
Such as in Milwaukee because Walker was in favor of dropping the residency requirement to work there…
http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-102010-open-sky,0,7341989.story
well…. I’ve held my tongue….
but I don’t believe that “RealTruth” is a lurker or a first time poster….
I do believe that he/she is very smart and a lot of fun to have around…..
The Democrat, Tom Barrett was unable to get the emergency radio system working (sounds like the problems that affected NYPD/FDNY on 9/11) and the police and fire union got sick of waiting and flipped to Walker…
HAD They endorsed Barrett, he either wins or loses by a narrower margin and Walker doesn’t have the balls to go scorched earth on all public unions in the state
NEW THREAD