He’s Baaack! Nader Seeks Dem Challenger

Some progressives charge President Obama has abandoned liberal values. David Shuster talks to Ralph Nader about a move to encourage Democratic primary challengers in 2012 (“Countdown,” Current TV, 07/29/11).

119 thoughts on “He’s Baaack! Nader Seeks Dem Challenger”

  1. I agree with Nader. If this happens, I will watch the debates. I’d love to see Obama have to answer for some of his policies. I’d love to see Obama have to explain exactly what he meant by “change we can believe in” now that we’ve seen it in action… or non-action.

    Every time someone talks about Obama being a corporatist, I think back to Rev. Wright saying “they’ve been grooming him for years for this”. I’ve always wondered who “they” were… I think it’s becoming clear the answer is his corporate whore masters.

  2. Last election cycle I made a terrible mistake--I chose not to vote for a senatorial candidate. I thought the Democratic candidate, Alvin Greene, was horrendously flawed and the Republican offering, Jim DeMint, well, he speaks for himself.

    At this point I’m ready to support Greene for President. C’mon, Ralphie, you don’t have a hair on your butt if you don’t nominate him!

  3. I posted before that when I read Obama’s memoir, I had a response I wasn’t expected: that this was a person, albeit intelligent and gifted, who was contriving an identity for himself and distracting readers from that by appearing to do something similar for his father.

    Lots of people live via synthetic identities. The simple way of describing this is that it is who they would either like to be (if they could) or who they believe themselves to be with an absent presence of it inside of their soul.

    What those people lack sadly is the old rubric of character. People who have characters aren’t “characters”: whatever the outcome of it they live more directly from their souls.

    Obama as President keeps proving he doesn’t know who he is and, with that, he doesn’t know all that much about who the others are around him. The best it seems to be is a storyline in which he believes he will represent… well, whatever he believes he is representing at that moment which, at the moment, will also happen to be him.

    People with character certainly will make mistakes. But they know who they are and can glean more than a bit under pressure of what it is they have done and even some of what they are doing.

    All I found in Obama from that 2004 Democratic Convention was a Declarer (albeit one with a really good smoker’s voice). That is part of the made up identity life. Ask anyone who was married to such a man or woman — more than a few will tell you how often they wound up in lousy nowheres.

  4. This is the Best We’ve Got?
    by Taylor Marsh

    But the man who has occupied the Oval Office since January, 2009 is… — a man seemingly without a compass, a tactician who veers rightward one day and leftward the next, an inside-the Beltway dealmaker who doesn’t explain his comprises in light of larger goals. … But instead of explaining this to the American people, he joins the GOP in making a fetish of reducing the budget deficit, and enters into a hair-raising game of chicken with House Republicans over whether the debt ceiling will be raised. […] – Robert Reich

  5. Craig,

    I was on Lipitor pre-emptively for about two weeks. I didn’t need it, didn’t want, was taken off it.

    But Boehner on his own is all of Lipitor’s veiled side effects —

    He is causing national diarrhea, fever, nausea and vomiting and excessively crippling pain.

    His dumbass speech was night was an eerie imitation of George Pataki’s pretending to be angry during his state of the state address — particularly when he howled at those who don’t eat corn.

    I know people are phoning, tweeting and sending Facebook messages to members of Congress (and dropping Obama faster than they did Charlie Sheen) —

    But when are people going to realize they have to show up places? Don’t people remember it was those Town Hall meetings (along with the Koch Brothers money) that empowered the Tea Party?

    Why do they think the ease of dialing or posting or tweeting will ever do ANYTHING to their enemies?

  6. Oh,yeah — so what will Nader do? Put himself up as a turd party candidate again so, say, Michelle Bachmann can win in Florida?

  7. The Empty Bully Pulpit
    by Robert Reich

    Wow, what a piece!

    Never once does he tell the public why reducing the deficit has become his number one economic priority. Americans can only conclude that the Republicans must be correct — that diminishing the deficit will somehow revive economic growth and restore jobs

  8. 9/11 I’m MOST pleased seeing you here in such fine fettle!

    I’m so beside myself in mixed anger and dismay that I stop by here every few days, take the political pulse, then return to mourning for our country behind drawn drapes.

  9. I had my fill of Ralph Nader during the 2000 elections here in Florida. Thanks Ralph, and the far left wing that voted for him, for George W. Bush!

  10. add my disgust with nader to purp’s and cll’s sentiments.
    all that ford pinto exhaust got to his brain…

  11. Flatus,

    Unfortunately The Collective We got what we collectively asked for — Obama and the Tea Party.

    Nader is not the only one who is saying there should be a challenge. Many (including people I know) ask why there isn’t much discussion of it by potential candidates.

    If there is one, I hope that it won’t be Kucinich. But who among the known Democrats is contesting Obama?

    The norm is proclaiming that the GOP is dying. (Look at Katherine Parker’s column today.) But the Dems are acting like they have advanced beyond that — they seem like they are post-mortem by their own strange choice.

    Thank you, Flatus. So good to be here!

  12. “I copy and paste the title then highlight it. Next i copy the URL of the highlighted title. Then i click the link icon, erase the http and paste”

    tony, thanks. like solar said, the how to comment directions on links was beyond my comprehension. therefore i sinned with humongous urls and got busted.

  13. If there is at least one candidate who emerges, that person should study Ted Kennedy’s failed run against Carter. Why? That sort of thing could recur.

  14. Like it or not the seeds of this current debt debacle were sown when George Bush was appointed president.
    In part I still hold Nader partially responsible for that turn of events.
    Ralphie may be correct, but he has no standing, to speak for progressives, or anyone else for that matter.

    He may be back, but he really needs to go away again and soon.

  15. The most outrageous part of this debt ceiling debate has been the republican demand for a balanced budget amendment.
    For the life of me I can’t understand why they weren’t calling for this in 2000 when they were handed a budget in surplus on a silver platter.
    I think that they have some explaining to do!

  16. Kennedy ran a real campaign against Carter… he wanted to win. If you watch the video, Nader is saying the progressives want to put up a candidate (he states he will not be said person) that will address positions from the left in debates with Obama. He said they don’t expect to win the actual nomination… they fully expect that to go to Obama.

    They are looking for someone to act like Al Sharpton did in the last primary season. Sharpton knew he had no chance at the nomination…. but he had issues he wanted to bring out in the spotlight.

    And… this is essentially what Craig posted about a couple months ago. A primary season where there will be a fierce battle with Republicans getting lots of media attention and with no opposing candidate to at least debate Obama will be bad for Democrats…. as Obama will wind up getting very little media attention.

    The trick will be in picking an effective progressive candidate to debate the issues that doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the primary.

  17. Taylor’s comment from the piece above and i totally agree!

    Taylor Marsh 30 July 2011 at 2:52 am #
    Well, I’m not a fan of Ms. Dowd when it comes to her analysis on Democratic politicians or presidents. She’s got Noonan-itis.

    I’m also not convinced at all he’ll be a one-term president, though as one Dem insider made the case a long time ago, Obama has never run against a competent Republican. If Romney is the nominee, he could be the first real tough opponent Obama gets, though he’s still got very tough sledding in the primaries before that happens.

    Beyond who runs against Mr. Obama, I also remain unconvinced it actually matters who wins the presidency, as Obama’s made the differences even more irrelevant.

  18. Tony,
    Taylor Marsh is right, at this point the differences between Obama and republicans are negligible. At best Obama is republican light.
    However there is not a single republican candidate either declared or mentioned, that I would want to fill the next vacancy on the supreme court. Shudder!

  19. Making fried rice. The first step is having quality cooked rice as rice should be the dominant flavor in the finished product. We use a rice cooker. They can be had for as little as $15. They make it incredibly easy to make perfectly cooked rice. Follow these instructions in using a rice cooker (instructions for actually turning your rice into fried rice will be forthcoming in a day or two):

     Use Korean or Japanese rice. It’s different from Chinese and most American rice. Some California rice is pretty good—Calrose is one of them.
     Measure the rice using the cup that came with the cooker.
     After measuring the rice into the cooking pan, pour in a cup, or so, of water. Rinse the rice by scrunching it around in the water. This will remove the coating placed on the rice during manufacturing. (The coating used to be talc, but in the past few years it was changed to edible rice by-products. In both cases, it subtracts from the taste of the final product.)
     Drain the ‘scrunching’ water and repeat the process once or twice until the water is fairly clear.
     Using the indented measuring marks on the side of the cooking pan, add water to the level matching the number of cups of rice you started with. Be consistent on how you do this.
     Before cooking the rice, let it rest in the water for at least fifteen minutes. Think good thoughts.
     When you actually start the cooking process, don’t open the cover until you are ready to serve the rice. Have faith.
     After cooking, let the rice rest for about fifteen minutes before you serve it. (You can probably leave it in the cooker for a couple of days before it is no longer good.)
     The cooker won’t break if you try using it with other kinds of rice.

  20. Renee,

    Yet Kennedy based it on personal rage, even pique. And the definitive moment of his campaign in whatever memory history has was his less than coherent interview with Dan Rather. He made no case for his own candidacy and that stayed with people. I’d visit Massachusetts then and even his supporters there were dismayed. The improvements he made were often valid but his campaign is remembered for that interview, his Camelot evocation speech at the Dem Con and his not doing much of anything even in Massachusetts to redirect votes from Anderson to Carter.

    And, yeah, I voted for Anderson.

  21. It’s the economy stupid! Jobs, Jobs, Jobs! Pass a clean debt limit increase without ANY austerity programs.

    We have an income problem! We need more JOBS! According to OMB our income as Percentages of GDP is the lowest since 1950.

    Except for the piece of crap stimulus (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) that was a joke with its minimal amount of infrastructure spending and a massive amount of pork from both parities. It did produce some jobs. Now the stimulus is completed and the jobs are evaporating. The Tea Party House also stopped all airport construction projects when they refused to pass the FAA appropriation bill.

    I have no idea what Harry Reid and President Obama are doing supporting deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans including cuts to poor and middle class programs, and cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ECONOMY_ANOTHER_RECESSION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-29-23-41-08
    Recession risks up amid slow growth, debt standoff
    By PAUL WISEMAN and CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER, July 29, 11:41 PM EDT
    WASHINGTON (AP) — The economy is at risk of slipping into another recession.

    The new picture of an economy far weaker than most analysts had expected suddenly made a second recession a more serious threat -- and the threat will rise if Congress can’t reach a deal to raise the government’s debt limit.

    Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and other economists have warned Congress against cutting too much too soon because the economy remains so fragile.

    If a deal isn’t reached for another month, Joel Naroff, of Naroff Economic Advisors, estimates there’s an 80 to 90 percent chance that the spending cuts would tip the economy into recession. Even if there is a deal, it would likely trigger significant spending cuts that would slow growth, at least in the short run.

    In a Twitter message, economist Justin Wolfers of the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School said he thinks there’s a 40 percent chance the economy has already been in a recession for the past four months.

    Americans are still carrying heavy debts, and what little gains they’ve made in wages have been eaten up by higher gas and food prices. Businesses, getting more work out of staffs downsized during the recession, are reluctant to hire until they’re sure their sales will pick up.

  22. PIT,
    So true so true it should be about jobs, but republicans are simply not going to let Obama or any one else for that matter do anything that might improve the job outlook.
    As for tipping back into recession, that is not really possible because for most people, they have never come out of recession.
    Wall street and the stock market may have improved somewhat over the last year and a half, but on main street the pot holes have just become more numerous and larger.

  23. http://craigcrawford.com/2011/07/who%e2%80%99s-making-sense-gop-infighting/#comment-265873

    I had a few acrimonious exchanges with WP about the issue of posting pics in the comments. It seems to have something to do with their spam filters, and though I think I’m able to post pics in my personal comments, no one else can. Particularly disheartening because my buddy Anna Molly used to post chocolates and Dom Perignon pics for me when she felt I’d done a really good post or if I was feeling down and out.

  24. BTW--is Ralphie offering himself up as a sacrificial--something or other in this putative primary?

  25. Faire,
    The Dom’s not on my budget plan.
    Alas, I too must gives thanks for virtual Dom.

  26. RebelliousRenee

    Im going with Renee on this one: We need someone that will give Axelrod a few un-sleep-able nights. Is there a Dr. in the house? calling Dr. Dean……I liked his passion, but the stupid Media (Msn, and cnn included) defined his yell as being out of control…..

    In 2000 and in 2004, I still blame Gore, and Kerry for GW…they ran as elitist and lost; Both their wives had more fight in them….

  27. I have a major problem with Nader in that his own ego keeps messing up everything he supposedly believes. He has a great deal in common with the tea party types in that he is far too willing to bite his nose to spite his face.

  28. jace,

    I agree with you completely that most of us are still in a recession. Only somewhere between the top 1 and 5 percent of the people were not affected by the recession. I was talking about the “official” deciders of when a recession starts and ends, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER).

  29. Solar,
    I doubt that Axelrod will have any sleepless nights.
    Like most generals through out history he is preparing to fight the last war. I don’t think he realizes how much things have changed. Just like Rove he was always way over rated.

  30. PIT,
    I know that they have to have parameters in order to make these determinations, but 26 million either unemployed or under employed plus millions more who are no longer being counted, spells recession or God forbid even depression to me.It seems that all too often that these people pay homage to these technical definitions while totally ignoring the reality and human cost that accompanies them.

  31. jace,

    Again you are absolutely correct. The problem is that economics has become so mathematical that anything that can not be represented by an equation is ignored. Economics is a social science not a physical science. It is based upon the moods of people not physical laws. When we ignore people and their effects that can not be put into equations we develop failed economic models. Like today.

    An economy is simply the method a society uses for dividing up work and resources and deals with the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. In a capitalist society, money is the vehicle that forces people to work. Money is required to buy the goods, services, and resources needed in life, and money is only given in exchange for ones own goods, services, and resources.

  32. 40% of the Dems are African American, and this population is both very sensitive to perceived insults and very proud of oh,bummer. If it is perceived that a successful challenge to oh,bummer is racist -- and that is probable -- African Americans will stay home in November 2012.

    It is for this reason that I contend an African American must lead the irruption of the Left -- to dispell thoughts that the challenge is racist, and to keep the African Americans in the party and fully engaged. A successful challenge must center on oh,bummer’s plans to further impoverish little old black ladies -- a population oh,bummer hasn’t had much contact with in his life. Social Security and the widening gaps in income and wealth between the races are oh,bummer’s weakness, and the challenger must keep attacking him on those points until he peals the African American primary voter away from oh,bummer.

    The danger for any African American who decides to challenge oh,bummer is that the White House will immediately label him/her as a traitor, a tom, a fringe-leftie, and a tool of Whitie. It’ll take an emotionally centered and intellectually tough person to handle all the crap that will be thrown at him. And it will be nasty for the oh,bummer campaign would panic. The challenge by a Black candidate is just about the only thing that could prevent the renomination of oh,bummer.

    Does anyone know Rep. Elijah Cummings ? Can anyone here recruit him into leading a revolt ?

  33. Mr. Tampa,

    Many Americans seem to be in a depression. I know an MA++ in Mathmatics who has been unemployed for a year, an MA in Public Administration who has been unemployed for 3 years, and a PhD in Organic Chemistry who has been unemployed for 5 years. These people work at odd jobs and as tempsto put bread on the table, but no one seems to hire 50+ year old people for work in which they are trained.

    Jobs are out there, just be young and good-looking, and be prepared to work for 40% of what you used to make..

  34. ” He [Nader] has a great deal in common with the tea party types in that he is far too willing to bite his nose to spite his face.”

    Very true, Jamie.

  35. rip ups like to call their B!LL!ONA!RE constituents, ‘Job Creators’. The dirty truth is that the jobs they create are all in commie China and idol-worshipping India.

    But here in America, these ripuplican ‘Job Creators’ are actually job destroyers.

  36. Since he left the industry watchdog business (I guess he was left behind when American business became commie Chinese) I haven’t liked nadir.

  37. PIT,
    Were it within my power to do so I would nominate your 12:32 pm as the post of the day. Excellent.

    You are indeed correct that economic variables that can not be mathematically quantified are all but ignored by economists and policy makers.

    Perhaps it is time to formulate a mathematical equation that provides an accurate representation, of the economic desperation within a society, and how said desperation causes the population to do stupid things, like believing that elected politicians will act in the best interests of the country.

  38. x-r, I checked out the percentage of Blacks in the Democratic Party: According to Gallop in 2009, 19% of the Party registrants are African American. 11% are Hispanics, six percent are of other race or ethnicity with 65% Anglos.

    Eighty-nine percent of rank-and-file Republicans are non-Hispanic whites, leaving just 5% who are Hispanic (of any race), 2% who are black, and 4% of other races.

  39. X

    Daughter Toots had dinner last week with an AA family who were thrilled to have their 82-yo Grandmother visiting from NYC. Toots and the very pleasant lady had a wonderful conversation going until daughter asked her about the current political impasse.

    At that point, Grandma became shrill and irrational blaming everything from red-tide in Sarasota Bay to the Tea Party on Mr Obama. She ran through the litany of broken promises to Liberals and Progressives saying that she had never felt so letdown in her entire life.

    My family is ready to take to the streets here in Columbia. Anyone want to join us?

  40. eprof,

    The Dem party is 19% African American, but I was thinking of the turnout in the general election. I am fairly sure that I read 40% somewhere. Whether 19 or 40, it is a huge demographic to alienate.

    Flatus,

    I’m glad that Toots is hanging out with the right people. Her parents must have trained her well.

  41. x-r, your point is well taken: African American voters could deny any Democrat an election victory.

    What do you all think of Eliot Spitzer as a viable presidential candidate? If we’re going to look for an alternative to Obama, we’d better start looking right now and consider all possibilities.

  42. Obama’s Crucible Moment at Intersection of Politics and the Economy by John Harwood

    WASHINGTON — It was a day that brought fresh evidence of all the forces converging on President Obama in the latter half of his term: a weakened economy he cannot lift, a deeply divided Congress he cannot move and, as a result, a level of political risk he seems hard-pressed to control.

    The report on Friday that the economy grew at an anemic 1.3 percent rate in the second quarter dimmed chances of the nation’s 9.2 percent unemployment rate falling quickly as Mr. Obama heads into his re-election campaign.

    As Congressional leaders scrambled to find some path toward resolution of the fight over raising the government’s debt ceiling, Mr. Obama remained largely a bystander, left to implore citizens to phone their lawmakers to press for a deal. The White House dismissed calls for the president to invoke an untested and much-debated constitutional provision to avert a financial crisis as the Treasury Department prepared for the possibility of a default whose implications seemed that much greater given the fragility of the economy.

  43. Pelosi ‘Clearly’ Backs 14th Amendment Option In Debt Standoff, Congressman Reports
    by Jennifer Bendery

    WASHINGTON — House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) may not be pushing the issue publicly, but in private she “clearly” supports President Barack Obama using the Constitution to raise the debt ceiling as a last resort, according to one Democratic member of Congress.

    “Nancy clearly wants it,” said the lawmaker, who requested anonymity. “Publicly? No. Privately? She thinks the president should do it. Period.”

  44. Tony,
    Obama has had several crucible moments during his time in the White House. I think that is why I am not terribly confident in the outcome of this particular crucible moment.

  45. Fair,

    You said “anytime, anywhere” now is the time…. and were going to Spain for a little dancing, but what are you doing all by your self dancing on the stairs, showing off a little?…..use the full screen mode.

  46. Tony,
    This thing is headed South faster than oats through a horse.
    We are so screwed. God what a mess.

  47. Forum Counsel

    Please draft legislation allowing duels to the death between Members of Congress and between senior political leaders and cabinet officials as well as opposing senior political leaders.

    The Whereas’s should include something to the effect of …to assure a more perfect Union, etc., etc..

  48. Flatus,
    Good piece of legislation you are proposing.
    No doubt the critters, will take it up just as soon as they get their balanced budget amendment.

  49. tony, seems pelosi wears the balls in the dembat family when it comes to the 14th amendmt option. guess i should give a few others some credit tho. from boston globe this morning:

    With just days until the nation hits its debt limit, rattling the American economy, President Obama is under mounting pressure from some members of his own party to invoke an obscure Civil War-era constitutional provision that they say would allow him to unilaterally raise the debt limit……
    ….Steny H. Hoyer and James E. Clyburn, the second- and third-ranking Democrats in the House, and John Larson and Xavier Becerra, the chairman and cochairman of the House Democratic Caucus, have said they would back Obama if he uses the amendment to avoid a default.
    Senator John F. Kerry and Bill Clinton, the former president, have also supported the idea, with Clinton saying he would invoke the amendment “without hesitation and force the courts to stop me.’’

    http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2011/07/31/possible_legal_loophole_would_be_risky_for_obama/

    the prez shouldn’t announce ahead of time that he will invoke the power. politically, that would be premature ejaculation. imo the gopers would use it as an excuse to do nothing (lifting the ceiling is a bad vote in their eyes) and also give the opposition time to run to the courts. he should wait them out, let them fall on the sword or if they fail to act, take action then declaring an obvious national emergency.

  50. sorry about breaching the outer limits. still can’t get that link thingy. too many cobwebs, too few cups of coffee

  51. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-S3uoeTXg

    I am posting this link, hope it works.

    I think that I may have found another line of work for our congress critters who have no balls.
    I have no doubt that they could single handedly resurrect 18th century opera as it was originally conceived.They have the ‘opera buffa’ down pat.

    Castrato Congress?

  52. but what he could do now is start listing the contracts that he’ll defer, delays in payments, shutting down certain agencies….

  53. test test test…the late night blog is eating my posts…says I’m in violation of the disallowed multiple posts rule. Ate Cbob’s too.

  54. Patd,
    First checks to bounce should be made out to Boehner and McConnell.Next in line should be all members of tea party.

  55. Patd,
    Thanks for the imbed. You have better luck with it than I do. So I just stick with the links.
    Quite good singing, and a good job opportunity for our present crew of critters. Hope they all jump at the opportunity.

  56. Listening to NPR just now. If a final deal bears any resemblance to the one being described, republicans should break out the champagne and cigars.
    The administration has negotiated with hostage takers and given them everything they wanted.

    Dear Mr. President, welcome to irrelevancy!

  57. XR,

    I am intimately familiar with the attitude of business towards the senior generation. I was laid off at 61, along with about 8,000 people, because the company was caught doing illegal activities and fined almost a billion dollars. Never did find a job and ended up having to retire much earlier than I planned.

    Flatus,

    Man Knowledge: Dueling Part II-Prominent Duels in American History

    The article includes 5 duels in American history including the famous duel that occurred between Vice President Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton in Weehawken, New Jersey on the morning of July 11, 1804.

    The funniness by far is The Twain-Laird Duel.

  58. Yep, one of the big failings that Obama has made is to not drive home the cuts he will be forced to make over the next month.
    The national parks should have already been closed last month as a cost saving measure. As well so should the agriculture offices in every county across the nation, Want to go get your crop drought relief payment? , TS. You voted for that teaparty lover so pay the price.
    And on
    august 2 there should be no money spent on congressional expenses, including wages for congressmen. It may be unconstitutional but lets see them take it to court.

    Jack

  59. Purple, we have a story down home very similar to the Clay-Randolph duel--the participants were John Sevier and Andrew Jackson; Sevier missed Jackson completely, while Jackson severely wounded the heavy oversized duster Sevier was wearing--

  60. Pat,

    I was used to doing it a different way over at “the swamp” we did it via the htmls…like the ones (squiggleis ) that Craig erased at the bottom…so i tried to figure it out on my own, messed it up the first time and got caught with the big urls, then Craig, and Tony made it easier for me…I hope that the following helps you:

    On the last post that you made…take the mouse and drag it from left to right over your name (patd says) now that it is highlighted, click copy…go down to the comment box, and paste it….now go back to your last comment again and point the mouse over the date and time (july 31, 2011 at 9:57 am) right click it and press copy….

    At this point go to the blue link button on the top of the comment box and left hand click it..when the little box shows up…point the mouse in the box (left click) where it has the http:// left click after the last /… and back space that to erase it…then paste the date and time (url) that you have waiting…..then post comment, or preview to see it highlighted, then post it….

  61. Can someone tell me why Obama is negotiating with Mc Connell and excluding Reid? I don’t think any Dem should support whatever deal those two come up with. There ought to be a simple rule: Cut the Senate Dems out of the negotiations; don’t look to them for any votes. Obama is undercutting his own party. Hell, he’s screwing us all!

  62. august 2 there should be no money spent on congressional expenses, including wages for congressmen. It may be unconstitutional but lets see them take it to court.

    Jack… hear, hear!

    Rick and I will be setting up for my 9-day craft fair this coming Thursday. Opening day is next Saturday. I’ve been sweating what all this debt crisis stuff will mean and do to that event. But I’ve decided f*ck it…
    I will sell what I can and party with all my friends anyways.

  63. Pat,

    I forgot, and its important…when you paste your name in the comment box…drag the mouse from left to right again to highlight it (don’t press copy again)…just before you click the blue-link button….

  64. I got this in an e-mail from a high school classmate. Our 50th class reunion is coming up in August.

    Some of you probably won’t remember some of these things mentioned in the story. I remember the first TV my family got when I was 9. I remember spending 2 weeks each summer on my uncle and aunt’s farm for a couple of years. They did not have running water. They had an outhouse and a hand pump by the kitchen sink and a hand pump outside for water.

    The Green Thing
    In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren’t good for the environment.

    The woman apologized to her and explained, “We didn’t have the green thing back in my day.”

    The clerk responded, “That’s our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment.”

    She was right — our generation didn’t have the green thing in its day.

    Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

    Us this link to The Green Thing to see the rest of the story. For us “older folks” it is well worth it.

  65. I still use re-usable everything when I can. I bring my own bags when I shop, use re-usable containers at home, and buy as much as possible from the food co-op and package it in my own containers. I also use metal water/drink bottles and fill them from the tap or bulk containers. I buy many of my bags and containers from this site.
    http://www.reuseit.com/

  66. when I turned on the tv and saw (by mistake) sen. Lindsey Graham….I shut if off….as there is no doubt in my mind that they will avert the federal default during the last minutes: It is all just a pony and congress critters show to me….

    …..found something worthwhile looking at.! click on the I, II, and the III for the first three, I will be looking for the fifth and last part of the series….will be saving to my docs:

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/07/28/outside_the_wire

  67. A good read about the mess we still haven’t cleaned up.

    Barry Ritholtz

    Debt ceiling: 10 lessons beyond that crisis

    The debt ceiling is hanging heavy over our heads. But that’s not the only reason it looks dark down here. We’ve got some major and prolonged challenges: ongoing debt issues, structural unemployment, a housing overhang and continued economic frailty.
    How did we get here? Well, by way of a financial crisis, stock market collapse, bank bailouts and, of course, the Great Recession — and a good many moments of poor judgment.

    Given the drama of the debt-ceiling debate, this is a good moment for investors and policymakers alike to look back over the past decade at the mistakes made by our institutions, private sector and government.

  68. I think that they will avert it at the last min…but do agree….forgot who said that “they will attach all sorts of pork to the bill” Jack?…but that is what I see that is going on, it happens this way all of the time now…and emergency and then a swift passing of whatever bill the want to shove down our throats….just saying….

  69. whskyjack

    From one of the commentators:

    “Pres Obama I’ve come to the conclusion that so damn many voters are simply nuts. Pres Obama YOU run for president and win without knowing that GW Bush and Dick Cheney have this swindle going on. A swindle quite similar to the Reagan/Bush home loan swindle.”

    ….kept saying something similar myself…the S & L swindle…was just a way of learning how to do the Mother of all Swindles….”the too big to fail”, cept when will people get it right…it was the Cheney/Bush administration…..thanks for the link.!

  70. solar, thanks for the help.
    tony, you too
    i do better when instructions start off (1) push on button (2) push on button again after you’ve plugged in computer (3) move cat off keyboard (4)….

    nothing seems to be working today. snapped synapses. fried brain with all this techie talk

  71. Flatus says: July 30, 2011 at 3:09 pm : “Will they have cerveza at la cantina?”

    Beer Hall Putsch ? Sea Gull ! Sea Gull ! Sea Gull !

  72. Sturgeon, yep the filter ate both of you last night. Like I say once it sees dozens of posts in rapid fire from a single source, it assumes a hacker attack and goes into high alert. This time the server kicked in and deleted both your accounts. I see you re-registered, that’s good. Now we gotta get CBob back in.

    I must warn tho, anything that looks like a thread hijack is gonna trigger this thing.

  73. Pat,

    I will speak for Tony the baloney (fried baloney; he is southerner now; after deserting Michigan)…”you funny”…

  74. Mr. Tampa,

    I am saddened and chagrined at your loss. The criminal conspiracy you worked for was forced to downsize following a $1B!LL!ON fine. It would seem to me that you and 7,999 other former employees had incentive to begin a $1B!LL!ON PLUS class action lawsuit against the execs and board members, all of whom are financially responsible for the criminal acts and consequences.

    It is not funny that when execs and boards commit crimes, everyone has to suffer except the execs and boardmembers.

  75. If Dems challenge oh,bummer, and it looks like they will stomp him in IA & NH, he could switch to the independence Party in hopes of winning the Lily-White Indies and the Af Am Dems. Those fools in the iP would back him simply to get a name brand candidate.

    Then if the Bank Fraud Wing of the pugs prevents michele from getting the gooper nomination, in favor of willard, she could call a quickie e-convention and get herself nominated by the tea Party.

    With 4 parties running candidates, we could sorta re-create the election of 1860, this time with willard winning only UT and ID, and oh,bummer winning only D.C.

  76. Patd. I think the president will be singing like this by Wednesday. And, there will be a name change, too: Mr. Republican!

  77. eProf, to me his name is already mudd. I can’t believe we elected that man! What a waste! I hope he resigns. He is not at all competent to govern as a democrat. Of course, he doesn’t care, does he?

  78. For what it is worth, I hope the Dems refuse to go along with the President’s republican plan. I’m beginning to think that default would be better than any plan Obama engineers.

  79. Tony,

    Only caught the new rules on the Bill Maher show this wk (will watch a re-run) he mentioned Australia again this wk, Sweden, a cpl of others. Here is a chart that show how they do with transparency” corruption… Fun stuff:

    Australia ranks 8th…..the US of A ranks 22nd; and it’s partner in crime, the UK right along with them at 20th….little ol New Zealand, and Singapore was # 1

    http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

    Canada is kinda close by…im going over there…..later

  80. In my 4 party scenario, the scrawny winner, Dennis Kucinich, would have to come to D.C. disguised in a Scottish cap to avoid assassination. bachmannia would grip the old rip up lican ‘N’ and South Carolina would secede. Much to michele’s chagrin, the unConstitutional Convention will pick rick perry as president, because michele is 1. a babe, and 2. from 3 states that all voted overwhelmingly for Dennis Kucinich. The capital of the Teafederacy is established at Stone Mountain, GA, but later moved to Houston, TX at the insistence of the koch brothers, ron paul, and President perry.

    to be continued….

  81. Big trouble arises when President perry makes a joke about SC attacking Federal bases, a joke which members of the SC State Guard take seriously. The SC State Guard 3d Coastal Brigade unit, using Viet Nam Era surplus M 29 mortars bombard the Joint Base Charleston, precipitating The Second Civil War.

    The Second Civil War forces President Kucinich to bring the troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq, and deploy thm along the Ohio and Colorado Rivers. President Kucinich is unwilling to counter-attack, and President perry finds that his army is made up primarily of white officers and first sergeants. The teeper resolve to re-enslave all the Blacks, ‘for their own good’. This and their refusal to raise taxes to pay their army results in both black and po’ white soldiers adhering to the Union.

    to be continued….

  82. Pass a clean debt limit increase without ANY austerity programs or use Section 4 of the 14th Amendment. Put the bums at the rating agencies in jail for fraud!

    I have no idea what Harry Reid and President Obama are doing supporting austerity programs with deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans including cuts to poor and middle class programs, and cuts to Social Security and Medicare. They are not even trying to include revenue provisions in the agreement. This is worse than capitulation!

    Michigan Consumer-Sentiment Index Fell to 63.7 in July From 71.5 in June
    By Jillian Berman, July 29, 2011 10:01 AM EDT

    Confidence among U.S. consumers dropped more than forecast in July to the lowest level in two years, which may hold back the biggest part of the economy.

    The Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan final index of consumer sentiment fell to 63.7, the weakest since March 2009, from 71.5 in June.

    Limited payroll gains, reduced home values and higher gas prices may dissuade Americans from stepping up spending, which expanded in the second quarter at the slowest pace since 2009 when the economy was in recession.

  83. In April, 2013, CME pulls up stakes and moves to Memphis, and Wall Street is just about to move to Myrtle Beach, when disaster strikes the Teafederacy. The EU, redChina, and Brazil all go smoke free, causing the collapse of NC, VA, and Kentucky. When these states beg the Teafederacy for help, Speaker of the House Sharon Angle summed up Teafederate feelings by saying, “Pull yourselves up by your boot straps !”

    At this point, the NC, VA, and KY legislatures all vote to ‘return’ to the Union*, and to show President Kucinich good faith, they prohibit shipments of tobacco, cigarettes, snuff, chaw, and cigars, to Teafederate states. Former President oh,bummer immediately move moves from Wall Street in Myrtle Beach, back to D.C. Hearing about the tobacco embargo for the first time, Teaferate Senate Totality Leader, jim demint moans, “Houston, we got usselves a problem.” Within a week of the tobacco embargo, withdrawal symptoms bring the Teafederacy, the tea Party, and Houston to their knees. At Sweetwater Tennesee, General Billy Bob Lee offers to surrender to General Federico (Fed) Grant “for a drag.” Generously, Fed allows the defeated army to keep it’s lighters.

    *They call it the Union, because President Kucinich allows the soldiers to form a union.

    to be continued….

  84. President Kucinich, now victorious and vindicated, is assassinated by Fundamental Mormon leader jeff davis jeffs. Vice President Al Franken is sworn in as President at Twin Cities International Airport. Franken holds a kosher Torah hastely brought from St’ Paul’s Mount Zion Temple. Franken recites the oath of office from memory without the ‘help’ of former chief justice roberts. Chief Justice Breyer watches the ceremony on his laptop and says in a near whisper, “Just be a good boy”.

    The Happy End

  85. purple-in-tampa says: July 31, 2011 at 3:06 pm :
    “Pass a clean debt limit increase without ANY austerity programs or use Section 4 of the 14th Amendment. Put the bums at the rating agencies in jail for fraud!”

    Mr. Tampa for President !

  86. Actually, I don’t thnk America is ready for a candidate with a hyphenated name.

    I’m off to a party. ‘Bye for now.

  87. Yo, X, you’re in my neck o’ the knobs now. Sweetwater is barely 10 miles, as the crow flies, from Knobite Corner.

    I can see something like that happening in Sweetwater, TX as well. CME Gen. “Bull” Durham surrendering to--Laws a mercy, who???

    BTW, we don’t grow a whole lot of Burley around here anymore. Market flatlined & our tobacco co-op (located incidentally in Sweetwater) liquidated its assets & paid off its members. Mom got a check for a few dollars & some odd cents because we were the only ones of my grandmother’s heirs they could locate.

    Our biggest crop nowadays is rumored to be another sort of weed altogether.

    PS no mention of iced tea. Maybe when you edit? ;)

  88. One of the entries in Squire’s volume was Churchill’s “If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg”, written from the viewpoint of a historian in a world where the Confederacy had won the American Civil War, considering what would have happened if the North had been victorious (in other words, a character from an alternate world imagining a world more like the real one we live in, although not identical in every detail). This kind of speculative work, which posts from the point of view of an alternate history is variously known as a “recursive alternate history”, a “double-blind what-if” or an “alternate-alternate history”.[12]

    wiki

  89. sturge, we are at the moment it seems alternating recursively in a double-blind what-next alternate-alternate present. history will record our era in disappearing ink or as future literati might write: their hard drive fried, crashed and froze in non-ending loops of nonsense.

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