Why Obama Won Debt Deal

The President got what he most wanted, postponing another debt ceiling fight until after the election and without politically damaging entitlement cuts.

Everything else is eye wash. Most of the spending cuts are in the out years, which is another way of saying it won’t happen.

And one more committee to study cuts? Oh please, even if they call it a “super” committee that’s always a Capitol Hill euphemism for doing nothing. Adding so-called triggers for cuts if goals aren’t met also means nothing. Remember Gramm-Rudman?

Giving up tax increases on the wealthy is probably Obama’s biggest concession, but that fight lives for another day when the Bush cuts are scheduled to expire later on.

Even if liberals beat up the President for this deal, he wins. Nothing would help him more in his obvious effort to move to the center and appeal to independent voters for reelection.

153 thoughts on “Why Obama Won Debt Deal”

  1. Craig, why do you have a question mark at the end of your headline? Still more wrangling in the House? Still more concessions to the Republicans? The Republicans won — period!

  2. Yes, they did. They won with the help of the president that we foolish democrats worked our butts off for. Just sickening!

  3. Question mark was a typo, eProf, now gone. Republicans won nothing other than being remembered for taking the country hostage for two months to do practically nothing. And mark my words they will back down when those Bush tax cuts come up for renewal in the middle of an election.

  4. Craig, I hope you’re right re: Bush tax cuts. The president already has a large number of nails in his coffin and that would be the last one sealing his presidency. We now go back to our regular programming (until the next bogus crisis).

  5. ACKKK!!! “Super-committee” reminds me of the good ol’ days, when I was trying my dangedest to be a good Methodist--Lord, we had committees. We even had committees to decide whether we needed committees. Bad flashback. :D

  6. I don’t know Craig, if Obama won anything, it certainly escapes me.
    My vote alone counts for nothing, but the votes of many like me, could count for a lot, in what seems sure to be a a very close 2012 election.

    At this point, I do not sense that there will ever be a cut made that hurts anyone other than those who can least afford it.

    If there is a ‘win’ here it is a hollow win indeed.


  7. As Obama Grasps Austerity, the Rich Get Off and the Middle Class Pays
    by Taylor Marsh

    None of this fazes Obama loyalists and die hard fluffers, as they continue their fan politics parade. Whether in emails or in comments here and across the web, with many sites banning Obama dissenters, Obama’s reelection cheer leaders continue to be focused on defending the indefensible, without ever caring one whit about the people impacted by Pres. Obama’s craven collapse to Republican economics, which starts at the state and local level. Peggy Noonan called Obama a “loser” last week, without blinking an eye for the millions of Americans who will be hurt by the austerity fetish, as the super wealthy and corporations get a pass, because Pres. Obama extended the biggest budget buster around, the Bush tax cuts, then, so impressed by the establishment and middle mush applause, decided to double down, leaving us where we are today.

  8. Should Obama have waged a far more aggressive P.R. campaign to saddle the GOP with potential blame for default? Maybe, but public opinion in recent days was running strongly for compromise and against Republicans — and they still continued to use the threat of default as leverage. Could Dems have had more success with a more aggressive approach? We’ll never know. Call it the road not taken.

    -sargent

    yup……

  9. First of all, Welcome Water Bottle.

    To your question, note that Sargent calls it “the promise” of major spending cuts in his lead. He knows, as do the overwrought GOP spinsters today, they caved for a ceiling hike and a delayed rerun of of this fight with nothing but “promises.” Believe me, even the GOP spinners don’t really believe their hype.

  10. President Obama is a highly intelligence and gifted con man. He is a great orator and campaigner. He lacks judgment, leadership skills, executive command, management ability, and common sense.

    Obama and his administration deserve a big fat “F” for Judgment and Leadership:
    • Demonstration of a Total Disregard for the American People;
    • Economic Recovery is in the toilet with only Wall Street and large corporation, not small businesses, doing well;
    • Federal Income as Percentages of GDP is at its lowest level since 1950.
    • The Economic Recovery is stymied by Obama’s disaster of economic teams which are a virtual constellation of former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, Goldman Sacks based, and Wall Street loving players;
    • Has offered nothing to help improve the Dismal Jobs situation;
    • Stimulus (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) was half the size that his advisers recommended, a minimal amount for infrastructure spending, and a massive amount of pork;
    • Ignores the Failed Plans for Reducing Foreclosures and a total lack of direction for Improving the Housing Market;
    • Encouraged Health Care Issues similar to Republican state plans and pointedly rejecting the single-payer option;
    • A total Lack of Transparency using behind-the-scenes deals with doctor and hospital groups, insurance industry, and pharmaceutical companies to block any Congressional effort to extract any extra cost savings;
    • Continuing the Bush administration’s policy of expanding the executive branch’s powers, privilege and authority;
    • Lack of Real Improved Regulation of the Banks and Wall Street;
    • Failure of Prosecution for the Parties Responsible for the Great Recession;
    • Failure for Closing the ERON Loophole for Automated and/or Foreign (server in Atlanta, GA) Oil Speculators that causes increased fuel and gas prices;
    • Continuing the Bush administration’s National Security policies that include warrantless wiretapping programs, and suspects that are detained or rendition, without formal proceedings, placed on CIA flights to secret sites in third party countries that allow torture which gives the U.S. a “legal loophole” to allow enhanced harsh interrogation techniques (torture) without being legally liable;
    • Appointment of regulators that don’t believe in government regulation of the “Free Market” and find excuses not to regulate;
    • Prevention, Cleanup and Distribution of Reimbursements for BP and like Oil Spills;
    • Extending the 2001 and 2003 Bush Tax cuts with nothing in return;
    • An Oblivious Deadpan Involvement in the 2011 Debt Ceiling Crisis except for supporting deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans including poor and middle class programs, and cuts to Social Security and Medicare;
    • Eliminating American’s Manned Space Flight Program, which won the Space Race, causing the waste of billions of dollars in previous developments and eliminating about 12,000 jobs;
    • Did not listen to Paul Volcker, Warren Buffett, Elizabeth Warren and Sheila Bair, instead relied on the Robert Rubin constellation of Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Peter Orszag, Gary Gensler, Michael Froman, Gene Sperling…;
    • Most of his appointments believe in conservative, voodoo, supply-side, trickle-down, “tax cuts increase government revenue” economic model and along with Ayn Rand’s Objectivism that even Alan Greenspan admitted does not work;
    • Confusing Compromise (settlement of differences by mutual concessions) with Capitulate (to surrender unconditionally or on stipulated terms).

    Ben Bernanke Chairman of the Federal Reserve even permitted the big Investment Banks to be classified as Commercial Banks in order to receive Fed aid and oversight. We have seen the aid pour out to the former Investment Banks but sure do NOT see any oversight by the Fed. The Treasury and the Federal Reserve even helped to reduce competition in the Global Investment Banking area with the demise of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, and Merrill Lynch. It looks like Goldman Sachs and the big banks are actually running the government. Obama reappointed Ben Bernanke Chairman of the Federal Reserve.

    President Obama was during the 2008 election, and still is, a moderate conservative masquerading as a Democrat. When will he officially change his Political Party to Republican?

  11. Only inside the beltway, out here he has looked weak and ineffective. with 9% unemployment no sign of an end to the recession people are going to be looking for leadership. So far he is making Romney look like Reagan to his Jimmy Carter impersonation

    Jack

  12. If only Obama had a set or if we could just get Michelle to loan them back to him for a while.
    The speech he should give tommorrow

    “My fellow Americans. Tonight I have signed an order raising the debt ceiling for the next two years. I have taken this extraordinary step because I had no other choice. My duties under our Constitution include being commander-in-chief of our armed forces. Our forces are presently engaged in two long wars as well as hostilities in North Africa. I have taken a solemn oath to ‘preserve, protect, and defend’ our Constitution. To jeopardize in any way the well being of our troops, especially while in conflict, to endanger their pay and the housing and care of their families, to place in doubt our ability to pay for the care of the wounded, to place in doubt all the logistical support armies in the field depend on, would not only be unconscionable, it would be unconstitutional.

  13. Tony
    The bad thing is I like Jimmy Carter, he actually handled the presidency far better than Obama IMO.

    Jack

  14. This quote from Taylor Marsh says much,,

    Pres. Obama didn’t “cave.” This is who he is, a man with no ideological compass; a man who believes in himself and his own power, but has no faith in Democratic philosophy and never has.

    Martin Luther King, Jr. was a formidable orator. But at the foundation of his words was a vision, a purpose to use his powers to change the world as much as he could to benefit others. He was willing to risk his very life for people who were being oppressed. King saw injustice and tried to right it by any means he could. He knew he was a great man, but he was also humble enough to know that this would never be enough.

    Mr. Obama has no driving dream as a foundation, but is simply a formidable political PERFORMER that has the gift of oratory, which has become the facade behind which he stands. He can deliver the words, but has never cared about the deeds required to make those words manifest. He is a political ACTOR, nothing more, which is why compromise is his tool, because he has no ideas of his own for which he’s willing to risk failure to pursue. It’s always about *him*, never you.

  15. Democratic politics in a nutshell
    BY GLENN GREENWALD

    Let’s begin by taking note of three facts:

    (1) Three days ago, Democratic Rep. John Conyers, appearing at a meeting of the Out of Poverty caucus, said: “The Republicans — Speaker Boehner or Majority Leader Cantor — did not call for Social Security cuts in the budget deal. The President of the United States called for that” (video here, at 1:30);

    (2) The reported deal on the debt ceiling is so completely one-sided — brutal domestic cuts with no tax increases on the rich and the likelihood of serious entitlement cuts in six months with a “Super Congressional” deficit commission — that even Howard Kurtz was able to observe: “If there are $3 trillion in cuts and no tax hikes, Obama will have to explain how it is that the Republicans got 98 pct. of what they wanted,” while Grover Norquist, the Right of the Right on such matters, happily proclaimed: “Sounds like a budget deal with real savings and no tax hikes is a go.”

    (3) The same White House behavior shaping the debt deal — full embrace of GOP policies and (in the case of Social Security cuts) going beyond that — has been evident in most policy realms from the start. It first manifested in the context of Obama’s adoption of the Bush/Cheney approach to the war on civil liberties and Terrorism, which is why civil libertarians were the first to object so vocally and continuously to the Obama presidency, culminating in this amazing event from mid-2010: “Speaking at a conference of liberal activists Wednesday morning, ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero didn’t mince his words about the administration’s handling of civil liberties issues. ‘I’m going to start provocatively . . . I’m disgusted with this president,’ Romero told the America’s Future Now breakout session.”

  16. The following from Greg Sargent that water bottle referenced GOP on verge of huge, unprecedented political victory says it all .

    Democrats are useless, have a Jello spine, and need a course in how to negotiate without giving away the store. How can the Democrats be such dumb@$$es?! Oh that right, they put Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi back in charge after the 2010 election disaster. And Nancy Pelosi claimed that a Social Security COLA change to the chained CPI isn’t a cut. She needs to have her head examined!

    “Again and again, Dems drew lines in the sand that they promptly erased as the threat of default grew. A clean debt ceiling hike? Dropped. Cuts to Medicare benefits? They’ll likely be in that committee’s crosshairs. The insistence on revenue hikes? Withdrawn.”

    This bipartisan committee of Congress reminds me of the old saying “A camel is a horse designed by committee.”

    BTW water bottle welcome.

  17. There may be, when the dust settles, a few progressives and democrats who will be able to hold their heads high, knowing that they fought the good fight and stood consistently with the American people, but by and large there is enough shame to be spread around equally among the political class.
    Generally when you win something you can hold your head up and look people in the eye.
    If these people had any sense of shame they would go into hiding at some secret undisclosed location and remain there for the remainder of their terms in office. They are a blight on their good offices, and a putrid growth inside the body politic.
    Even Judas would not have sold out for so little.

  18. According to HuffPost in the last thirty minutes, the House Republicans want to change the agreement again. This time they want to protect any defense department cuts in the second stage in raising the debt limit and push more cuts in entitlement programs. We interrupt your regular programming…

  19. “The President got what he most wanted, postponing another debt ceiling fight until after the election and without politically damaging entitlement cuts.”

    Kinda knew thats what would happen.! He voted present again.!!!

    July 28, 2011 at 12:14 pm I wrote:

    Obama is not as sharp as people make him out to be…here in chicago he was just always “present” as a Senator he was always “present”. That”s what he is as a president “PRESENT” IMO..he is the world’s champion at deadpanning….

    Tonyb

    A few wks ago, I also compared him to another black man… A Nobel Peace Prize Winner: Nelson Mandela….one save a country…the other saved wall st…..

    He is/has disappointed any thinking minority again, imo and I know some that said so already…many of them won’t vote against him….but will sit the next potus elections out…will this hurt other dems running for elections?

    purple

    A bases loaded outta the park Home Run.!!

  20. Grijalva Statement Opposing the Bill He Voted For Yesterday
    By: Jane Hamsher

    Yesterday Grijalva was perfectly willing to hand over his Congressional authority to a new Catfood II Super Congress to slash Social Security and Medicare when he vote for the all-cuts Reid bill:

    Harry Reid Offers Debt Ceiling Bill That Resembles Mitch McConnell’s

    When it comes back as the McConnell-Obama bill with the GOP’s blessing they won’t need his vote any more, however, so now he can shake his fist in defiance.

    I rest my case.

  21. Who is more overwrought by most everything these days, Liberals or Teabaggers?

    It does not matter; I wouldn’t want to face battle with either as allies. They’re both only concerned about their own pride… both think that any sign of agreement means wholly a victory for their opponents. They both want the middle to fall on the swords of their own crafty construction.

    What a bunch of crybabies, the lot of them!

  22. From the Greenwald article tony linked to:

    In other words: it makes no difference to us how much we stomp on liberals’ beliefs or how much they squawk, because we’ll just wave around enough pictures of Michele Bachmann and scare them into unconditional submission. That’s the Democratic Party’s core calculation: from “hope” in 2008 to a rank fear-mongering campaign in 2012. Will it work? The ones who will determine if it will are the intended victims of that tactic: angry, impotent liberals whom the White House expects will snap dutifully into line no matter what else happens (even, as seems likely, massive Social Security and Medicare cuts) between now and next November.

    Jack

  23. Eprof,
    The quickest way to finalize the bill would be to let the republicans write it and just have the Dems. rubber stamp it.
    Oh damn, I guess we already did that.

  24. So was that a corporatist or an Obambicrat and is there a difference?

    lol
    Jack

  25. How cool to see you in the hood, MadMustard. And couldn’t agree more. This martyrdom on both sides is just silly. The mountain labored and brought forth a mouse. If you pare it down to what is real in the here and now, as opposed to winks, promises and threats for the future, this deal doesn’t do anything significant right now other than raise the debt ceiling until after the election — which is all Obama ever wanted.

  26. What a bunch of crybabies, the lot of them!

    Yep, with SS and Medicare on the chopping block because of Democrats, id say there’s much to cry about, call me a crybaby all you want too, its a sad day!

  27. Obama may have been the only adult in the room during these negotiations, I can’t say.
    Obviously he was not the only poker player in the room, just the worst.

  28. this deal doesn’t do anything significant right now other than raise the debt ceiling until after the election — which is all Obama ever wanted.

    Ha and that was for the good of the country, right????
    Obama the typical politician, no big news there..

  29. “This martyrdom on both sides is just silly”

    Craig you’ve got to get out of town, that talking point may get you points with the cable talk crowd. but it is far from any reality out in the real world.
    There has only been one side driving this.

    Jack

  30. I have hardly read a headline or a lead today that did not start out with the word McConnell.
    McConnell this, McConnell that. Essentially the minority leader is the go to guy who is getting the deal done.
    Apparently Obama and Reid are bystanders.
    Not what I would call a win.

    McConnell is going to own the Sunday shows next week.

  31. It was shocking, how did Tea Party people think they would come out ahead on this by constantly dragging their feet.

    It was to the point that John McCain was calling them out.

  32. Jack,
    Me too I have been on a bit of a losing streak lately, I would love some easy pickin’s

  33. For you democrats out there that want to have some influence in the presidential race , I suggest you go out tomorrow and register as a republican. That way you maybe able to influence the republican race so that our next president isn’t bat shit crazy. Because if things keep going as they are Obama is a one termer and maybe by a landslide.

    You can’t shit on your base at the wsame time you are running a 9% unemployment rate. then expect to be re-elected.
    Those are the simple facts that are lost in all the daily win/loss prattle.

    Jack

  34. John Boehner: ‘It’s all spending cuts’

    “Now listen, this isn’t the greatest deal in the world. But it shows how much we’ve changed the terms of the debate in this town,” Boehner said on the call, according to a transcript released by the speaker’s office. “There is nothing in this framework that violates our principles. It’s all spending cuts.”

    House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said “well done, Mr. Speaker.” Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wisc.) said this is a “better deal” than the previous legislation, according to a source on the call.

    “I’m amazed you got one for one,” Ryan said, referring to Boehner’s promise that he would achieve spending cuts to outstrip the hike in the debt ceiling.

    One lawmaker congratulated Boehner on backing the president down.

    Yep, maybe to those who live in Washington this is a big win for Obama! Shaking my head really wildly..

  35. Jack,

    Obviously democrats would register as Republicans and on mass pick the most unlikely to win.

  36. Robert

    If they do that then that is who they get and they can’t blame anybody but themselves.
    A welcome to both Robert and water bottle to our humble rat maze.

    I’m one proud lab rat
    Jack

  37. I’d love to see Obama debate Michelle Bachman.

    I’d love to see Obama debate a good liberal primary challenger, ha but i’m just dreaming.. :lol:

  38. 1. Word Press just stopped me at the door and demanded my id. It’s the 1st time it has happened. Back at cq it happened every other day.

    2. The rip ups got TR!LL!ONS in promises out of oh,bummer. However, as every leftie Dem knows, the man is a Goldmanned liar.

  39. Let’s Make a Mess
    by Taylor Marsh

    We’ve got a congressional Committee with powers beyond what any hand picked pack of legislative jackals should have.

    Oh, and while cuts are found, Republicans get to play new games to prove Democrats don’t stand for much. Tea Party politics is crazy awful, but they stand for something and can go back to their district with proof.

    …and Mitch McConnell, he’s looking awfully smart tonight. So, remember the people who hailed Pres. Obama when Mitch came forward with his devious little idea? We’ll be visiting it a lot between now and 2012.

    Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to.

  40. Mad. If being a crybaby means you don’t want to see seniors lose their basic financial support, health care being denied to everyone, out of work folks losing their safety net, veterans not receiving their health coverage, uranium mining in the grand canyon, oil drilling everywhere, union busting, mine safety, air safety, food and air quality standards, Wall Street oversight, school defunding, police and firefighters losing their jobs, and support for state and local infrastructure, and all the other services provided by government, then I’m a crybaby! And, proud of it!

  41. Time for a glass of box burgundy. An October vintage, grown in hot clay and aged in the finest California plastic. Insolently bland, with a lavish array of off-flavors, particularly raisin and fox.

  42. Why would Michelle Backman bother to debate Obama? Obama’s record will speak for her. 9% unemployment, and everything going in the toilet. She doesn’t even need to be very smart with those facts going for her.

    Jack

  43. Jack, Obama’s stimulus started the economy going after 8 years of Bush but the Republicans wanted an end to the stimulus spending and the Tea Party wanted no taxes really. Thats when the economy started its downturn.

    I think Obama will do just fine.

  44. The GOP Gets Its Way
    As reports of a possible deal leaked out late Saturday night, it appears that Obama is meeting the Republicans—on their terms. Michael Tomasky on what to watch for today.

    If you followed yesterday’s events hour-by-hour and have a little experience at negotiation yourself, you saw the signs as clear as day. When Mitch McConnell said—around 4 Saturday afternoon—that he had been talking with Obama and Joe Biden and the country will not default, he was really saying: We’ve cut the deal. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi were at the White House at the time, with Obama. Were the three of them—or the four of them, with Biden—figuring out their next counter-move, as one might expect? Maybe. But it appears more likely that Reid and Pelosi were getting their marching orders and being read the terms of surrender.
    When Reid took to the Senate floor around an hour later to say that McConnell was wrong and a deal was not forthcoming, he was refusing to march. He gamely tried to say that the basis for a deal could still emerge from the Senate. It still could, in theory. If somehow he finds 60 votes to advance his compromise bill, he will suddenly have the upper hand. We’ll find out today.
    But everything about their postures and inflections suggested that McConnell knew the deal was done, and Reid felt sideswiped by the White House.

  45. http://craigcrawford.com/2011/07/why-obama-won-debt-deal/#comment-266119

    Count me as another proud liberal crybaby. It beats being a cold, callous, sellout who cares more about his re-election effort than upholding the promises he made.
    Back during the ’08 campaign one of the criticisms about Obama was that his speeches were just words without any real conviction behind them or a track record to back them up. It’s too damned bad that we Dems didn’t listen back then.

  46. I think Obama will do just fine.

    Yah, most probably but will the rest of the country?? Obama’s presidency has been a failure! Ask the Reagan question, are we better off than we were almost 3 years ago? Has this president fought for democratic principles or capitulated at every turn to republican demands?

  47. “Better off?” Hell no!
    “Fought for Democratic principle?” No fricken’ way!
    Capitulated to republican demands at every turn? Without a doubt!
    Obama is not a liberal or a progressive. He is a republican in every way that matters. He is a sellout and a spineless fraud.

  48. Tony and eprof, we have plenty to cry about. The deal Obama cut doesn’t just sell out liberals and those who believed in and supported him. It is an immoral deal. Reducing the deficit on the backs of the poor and the middle class is cowardly and disgraceful. Obama says he is a Christian. Well his actions say otherwise. Maybe he should read his Bible and attend church more often. Or he could read this:

    Circle of Protection: A Statement on Why We Need to Protect Programs for the Poor
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    As people of faith, we are committed to fiscal responsibility and shared sacrifice. We are also committed to resist budget cuts that undermine the lives, dignity, and rights of poor and vulnerable people. Therefore, we join with others to form a Circle of Protection around programs that meet the essential needs of hungry and poor people at home and abroad.

    1. The nation needs to substantially reduce future deficits, but not at the expense of hungry and poor people.

    2. Programs focused on reducing poverty should not be cut. They should be made as effective as possible, but not cut.

    3. We urge our leaders to protect and improve poverty-focused development and humanitarian assistance to promote a better, safer world.

    4. National leaders must review and consider tax revenues, military spending, and entitlements in the search for ways to share sacrifice and cut deficits.

    5. A fundamental task is to create jobs and spur economic growth. Decent jobs at decent wages are the best path out of poverty, and restoring growth is a powerful way to reduce deficits.

    6. The budget debate has a central moral dimension. Christians are asking how we protect “the least of these.” “What would Jesus cut?” “How do we share sacrifice?”

    7. As believers, we turn to God with prayer and fasting, to ask for guidance as our nation makes decisions about our priorities as a people.

    8. God continues to shower our nation and the world with blessings. As Christians, we are rooted in the love of God in Jesus.

    https://secure3.convio.net/sojo/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=419

  49. Ya know, the last 3 elections have been change elections, nothing has really changed so I wonder if we are in for change election #4. ought to be interesting. And if we do will the politicians ever figure it out?
    Some days I swear we need hot tar and pitchforks to help improve their hearing.

    Jack

  50. It may well be a change election, Jack. Obama may have so pissed off his base that his job title and occupation will change come election day 2012.

  51. eProf, I respect you immensely but you prove my point. Both sides in this debt-ceiling debate have cast the choice as a good vs. evil debate. Both sides!

    Have you seen the commercials?

    Do we love our children? Do we want to see them saddled with mountains of debt? Do we like fluffy kittens? It is all BS and we both know it.

    Raise the debt ceiling now and we’ll deal with budgets later.

  52. Sooner or later every one comes to the realization that what they thought they knew was wrong.

    Perhaps before it is too late even Obama will have a similar epiphany. Not holding my breath.

  53. Mad, we are always told to wait for later for our liberal priorities. Unfortunately, later only brings more disappointment and broken promises. Obama doesn’t give a damn about our priorities. The only BS here is the bull that Obama handed us. And the real shame is that we fell for it.

  54. Could someone please explain to me where Obama plans to find 270 electoral votes?

    Short of running against a Bachmann or Santorum, I sure as Hell can’t find them.

    If Axelrod and company haven’t figured out by now that that they are one termers, they are even slower on the uptake than I had previously thought.

    Better I guess to have caved in on everything and lost the next election than to stand your ground and had a fighting chance.

  55. Mad, the same feeling has and will always be the same toward you and all who post here. And, we can agree to disagree, too.

    When Obama was arguing as recently as three days ago that he wanted the American people to support a balanced approach to the debt ceiling, meaning cuts and revenues, I thought maybe he had learned something about negotiating. It was clear by Friday that his line in the sand wasn’t as deep as we all thought. Now with today’s agreement, all of his lines in the sand over the past three months have been completely erased, much to my dismay and to my displeasure.

    We’re learning tonight that the pledge to support debt ceiling increases until after 2012 is also not completely true and that we will be going through this same debate again as early as November of 2011. So, the one thing that Obama thinks he got out of Republicans isn’t necessarily going to happen, and all the things that the Republicans wanted will happen. That’s not balance, and the center should be just as upset (66% of the American people wanted a balanced approach) as the left on the political spectrum.

    Tomorrow’s votes should be interesting. Senator Mike Lee of Utah has pledged to filibuster the Senate vote on this agreement. Nancy Pelosi hasn’t stated her position yet on whether Democrats should vote with the Republicans giving Tea Party folks cover to vote no — again.

    Stay Tuned!

  56. Jace, Obama is arrogant enough to actually believe that he will win in 2012. He thinks we liberals have nowhere else to go and will “come home” to him before election day. He clearly doesn’t get the depth of our anger and disgust. He doesn’t seem to realize that many of us who worked our butts off for him in ’08 will not lift a finger for him in ’12. As for cash donations, forget it. I’ll give my money to the local food panty or to an organization that buys heating fuel for poor families. At least I know my money will be used for good.

  57. Good, eProf. The food pantries will need that extra cash. I volunteer at our local panty here and see how badly people are hurting. It’s a disgrace that some people have so little in this nation. It is an even bigger disgrace that Obama is willing to see them make do with even less.

  58. Do they really refer to food pantries as a “panty”? I was making a joke, not about the need for food pantries but your spelling or fraudian slip. :smile:

  59. Ok…I am back to politics after following Ken Rosenthal and Peter Gammons all day on Twitter…it was the trading deadline in ML Baseball.
    So…did anything happen today regarding the debt ceiling? :twisted:

  60. Nannymm,
    It makes no difference where liberals and progressives go, sadly there are not enough of us to put any one over the top.It requires large numbers of independents and cross overs for a Dem. to win.
    I believe that Ohio is gone, possibly Pennsylvania as well.By the time the republicans demagogue Obama and his willingness to sacrifice Social Security and Medicare to the seniors in Florida, it will be a toss up.
    Unions in Nevada are capable of recognizing a sell out when they see one, and home owners just wanted some help with their mortgages, and still they wait.
    The current debt deal is not likely to have any impact on the housing crises.So count Nevada out.
    New Mexico is not likely to be fooled twice, they have the same housing problem as the rest of the south west, and they have seen nothing in the way of help from Obama. Count Colorado out of the Obama column, the fact that they supported him last time had more to do with the Bush disaster than it did with any love for Obama. Now they have a disaster that is equal or worse in their minds. Kiss Colorado goodby.
    Obama may win the usual democratic strongholds but anything else is at best iffy.
    Essentially he will have to run on the proposition that things could have been worse. Too many Americans simply don’t see how that could be possible,and this latest sell out won’t do a lot to change their minds.

  61. I just had cops here…three 19 year olds tried to knock a wall down it sounded like…I called cops and they caught the punks right away. Man that wakes a guy up…THUMP THUMP and the walls shake and the dogs go nuts.

    If I would have been carrying…well…but I’ll never know. I’d hate to have to shoot someone, you know what I mean…but that temptation would be there to start blastin’. :?: :roll:

  62. politics…..a compound word composed of the word “poly” meaning many; and “ticks” meaning blood-sucking parasites.
    --larry hardiman

  63. How many politicians does it take to change a light bulb?
    The politicians will conclude that the light bulb cannot be changed and Americans must now suck it up and begin to curse the dark.

    Why did the politicians cross the road?
    They saw a piece of buttered bread on the other side.

    Why does a male politician wear red suspenders?
    To make it easier to get his pants off.

    When is a politician not a politician?
    You’d think it would be as soon as he gets caught, wouldn’t ya…..but noooooo…..

  64. Why did the politicians cross the road?
    They go where they are directed by the good shepherds and their border collies.

  65. I am beginning to think that Pres. Obama may have already lost South Carolina…..

  66. 1. Several Trail Hands were using the phrase ‘liberal crybaby’ earlier. What was that about ?

    2. Did something happen to CBob ?

  67. Is “Robert” new or traveling under another name? If new, welcome. Hi Dexter and Mad. It’s been awhile and good to see you.

    As to this budget agreement. I’m going with the “satan sandwich” description. This certainly isn’t the country or ideals of the country where I grew up.

  68. White House spin on debt ceiling deal promises Democrats will be able to stand firm … next time
    byHunter

    The problem with this deal is the same problem with all of the White House “compromises” during this administration. They accept ridiculous Republican demands on the theory that next time around, they’ll be in a better position to fight them. Then, when the next time rolls around, they agree to Republican demands again, still saying that next time will present them with a better opportunity. Now we’re basing the entire White House assertion of a “bipartisan” deal on the mere say-so that during the next round of negotiations, we’ve figured out a way for Democrats to stand firm.

    Really? No: really?

  69. 1. We just watched a month long kabuki marathon.

    From what I’ve read, it seems the president in 2017 will get to decide from whence the ‘promised’ cutbacks will come.

    2. Having ‘settled’ their re-election difficulties with the goopered together deficit, budget, debt, and debt ceiling ‘promises’, the Capital Whores can now go whoring after corporate donations.

  70. Hi to Mr. Robert and Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Bottle !

    Colonel Mustard, welcome home.

  71. This will bother me until I spit it out, so, Craig, feel free to do with this comment as you will.

    Emanuel Cleaver’s calling the deal a “sugar coated Satan Sandwich” really got to the G.I. in me. There’s no way in hell that any self-respecting officer or NCO would call these series of deals anything other than shit sandwiches.

    I would go further. I’d pass the word to eat all the shit sandwiches you can while we still can get bread.

  72. If it’s still too hot to eat, it won’t be much of a concession to fast. Isn’t ramadan coming up, too?
    ———-

    “…Interior Department “officials have actively persecuted Dr. Monnett…this case illustrates that federal scientists working in controversial areas today are at greater risk than during the Bush administration.”

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43933715/ns/us_news-environment/

    ———--
    I would liken the debt deal to 4 people going to a restaurant in the 1980s, one of them being a smoker. Everyone had to sit in the smoking section because that one person couldn’t do without a fix for an hour. (The TP would be the person with the nicotine addiction who had to try to ruin it for everyone.)

    Agree that Obama got what he really wanted: nothing given that could do anything but help him with the middle; the GOP looks out of control; he kept his hands pretty clean. MoJo was wrong about thinking Obama would’ve been better off pushing on this months ago; it wouldn’t have made a difference in the outcome.

  73. MadMustard… so very nice to see you again! Yep… hyperbole is spewing forth… what’s a pragmatist to do except to keep on observing… :cool:

    Jamie… debauchery and gluttony… count me in.

    Seriously… any good political junkie knows that the time between now and Nov. 2012 is a loooong time in politics. I won’t be making any predictions yet.

    Robert… are you Rob?

  74. gooperry is calling for a prayer/fast on August 6.

    When did perry convert to Judaism ?

  75. Flatus…
    yeah…. but…. satan sounds so much more diabolical than shit. And make sure you use whole grain bread for that sandwich, mister…

    Blue…
    god… I feel for all the TM Texans. I was at a memorial service on Saturday for a good friend. One of her sons had flown in from Fort Worth. Said he was happy to be back home in New England even under the circumstances… said if he could find a job here he’d be back in a flash… he hates the heat and he’s had nothing but plenty of it lately. Try to stay cool.

  76. Well at least Emanuel Cleaver doesn’t legitimize the deal as “painful, BUT NECESSARY”.

    In the context of Christian dramatis personnae, “Satan Sandwich” is just about the right characterization. It conveys the sort of communion bread mcconnell, boehner, and obama like.

  77. Satan sandwich: The more bread you have the less Satan you have to swallow.

  78. Now I’ve risked the ire of Colonel Mustard. I’d better stay out of the Billiard Room and away from the candlestick, rope, knife, gun, lead pipe, and monkey wrench.

    Hi Ho, Hi Ho,

    It’s back to

    Glutting I go.

  79. Gluttony Day sign me up

    I think I’ll start my day with bloody marys and eggs benedict
    and move on (so to speak) from there

    Maybe I can find an old Delmonico’s menu and find out what Diamond Jim Brady ate in a single meal. I think he was one of the great gluttons

  80. Don’t see any headlines declaring the president a winner.
    Indeed the day seems to belong to repubs.
    This deal must really suck.

    Obama nowhere to be seen, Can’t imagine why.

  81. I think the country club goopers stuck it to the Tea Party people…only the Koch heads don’t know it yet that they are the Dupes of DC

  82. Debauchery and gluttony started here…so close to Texas and Perry. Once I start drinking, I will be ‘pray toasting’ to Perry — hoping he finds the way.

  83. Question, will super congressmen be elected by a special vote, say of maybe super delegates, or super voters, or do they just get to be super congressmen based on their performance?

  84. Let’s follow the money.

    If, what the pundits are saying is true, that the TP elected critters could care less about being reelected, then who is going to make them whole when they get kicked out of office??

  85. President Obama addressing the nation.
    “In the end in order to avoid default, I caved in to each and every republican demand.I set aside every principal that I hold dear, totally turned my back on the average American, and called into question for all time the ideas of a social contract, social justice, and government by the majority. This is what change looks like. Vice President Biden will now take your questions.” :cry:

  86. When republicans don’t like something, they simply put a hold on it or filibusterer it.Happens all the time.

    I suppose that it is too much to hope that their might be one lone Democrat willing to do same thing?

  87. If a third party or a primary challenge are not the result of this fiasco, then I guess that Americans really do deserve the type of government they get.

  88. Jace, your 0955.

    The only candidate I’m aware of who has the balls and credibility to clean house is Hillary. Who has other draftable candidates to propose?

  89. I would certainly think that once this turd of a bill is signed and the dust settles, that some resignations are in order. It is too much to hope for that the first would be the president’s, but at a very minimum, it is time for a whole sale house cleaning in the senate and the house.
    As of this moment Reid’s resignation from his post should be written and prepared for submission.
    Sadly I must say the same for Pelosi and Hoyer.
    They have been out maneuvered and steamrolled at every turn. It is not so much that someone else could do a better job, but rather that no one else could possibly do worse.

  90. Flatus,
    I’ll take Hillary in a heartbeat.
    Perhaps a draft Hillary movement is in order.
    As for others I can’t say, but there must be someone who can make the case for new direction and in so doing hold Obama to account for his policy of appeasement.

  91. Nice, warm days this week in the Willamette Valley. We haven’t had many hot days this year.

    Hillary 2012!

  92. Question. The original “gang of six” proposal would have made the Social Security minimum 125% of poverty line but changed the formula for COLA increases to reduce costs. This morning one Congress critter said $19,000 a year which is about $5000 over the 125% figure. Are there any hard numbers in this deal. If either of the numbers above are in there, there will be a lot of happy seniors. Two possibilities … no hard numbers and seniors could be shafted or hard numbers and liberals are being very, very quiet.

  93. KGC,
    Unfortunately, the only “Dupues of DC” are those of us still in business employing people.

    Knowing that in the end the only way out of this mess is for them to come and confiscate what we have built.

    This whole fiasco only demonstrates how truly close our whole house of cards is to complete collapse.

  94. OMG here’s the deal as I see
    Obama gets to not deal with this again
    The Tea Party and Goopers gets to prance around and say they won…and in the end NOT vote for it
    and the Obummer expects the Democrats to vote for it.

    If Republicans are not voting for it…no Democrat should vote for it.

  95. Greetings from the desert. I suspect that there will be a lot of nose holding today as the House and Senate vote for this debt ceiling/deficit spending bill working its way through the sausage maker.

    We’re looking at day 60 of 100 degree or more weather in a row. 92 days is the record.

    See you online.

  96. Joe Walsh just did the Tea Party Happy Dance and said he would not vote for the bill

    Boner better gag these jerks if he is going to have any chance of passing this piece of garbage

    The goopers must have hired Lucy Van Pelt

  97. And by the way
    a tax break for the wealthy is an entitlement

    social security and medicare are self-financed insurance and pension programs

    you can’t take my money and then change the terms of my contract — what a bunch of criminals

  98. KGC… is that the same Joe Walsh that believes in personal and financial responsibility that owes more than $100,000 in back child support payments….

    if he’s happy… that says a lot about the gopp…

  99. The most sickening thing to me about Joe Walsh is that, having spent five minutes in the House, he is now set for life…thanks to the generous pay and benefits package our Congress provides itself. Look at our current crop of legislators and try really hard NOT to throw up when you think about that….

  100. Where are we going to get $ for the crusades (wars) that we love so much?…the good cop/bad cop routine from the rs and ds struck again last night……

    The independent Congressional Budget Office has finished scoring the budget compromise reached by President Obama and Congressional leaders, yesterday.

    In a letter to House Speaker John Boehner, the CBO reports that because of budget caps, the legislation would reduce budget deficits by $917 billion between 2012 and 2021 and because of spending cuts, it would reduce the deficit by $1.2 trillion. That’s a $2.1 trillion cut over the next ten years. Using another projection, it found the cuts could amount to at least $2.3 billion.

    The letter from the CBO is a fairly readable outline of the plan. It gets into specifics, like for example how the plan allocates money for 2012 and 2013 spending on Pell grants or how the plan saves money by modifying some elements of student loans.

    11 pages:

    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/123xx/doc12357/BudgetControlActAug1.pdf

  101. Jax re your 1118

    So many people who are dependent on the government as one of their primary customers seem to lash out at that customer with vigor.

    I’ve always figured if a business had a stable relationship with a key customer, or group of customers, and that key bunch covered the business’s fixed costs and the marginal costs for their business contribution, then anything the government paid above and beyond their marginal costs flowed toward the bottom line.

    That’s why, if I was a doc, I’d love those Medicare patients so long as they weren’t displacing the full-fare patients.

    Does the same logic apply in your industry?

  102. Flatus,

    One of the primary considerations when dealing with any customer is to assess their ability to pay for the services that they utilize. When a customer is struggling it is prudent to limit your exposure to protect yourself.

    By any logical method of business evaluation our gov’t operates in such a poor manner that it is a poor credit risk but for it’s ability to confiscate from it’s citizens through mandatory taxes and fees.

  103. Jax

    The problem is you just aren’t rich enough yet, they still zap you for the whole load. };-)

    BTW, I’ve always found the federal government to be a good customer. They always pay and it is always 30 days after you send in the invoice and not a day sooner. Which is more than I can say for the county or the city.

    Jack

  104. This probably the best pure political analysis I’ve read this morning.
    It is by Steve Clemons, who is now blogging at the Atlantic

    Debt Deal Drama: Obama Loses; Jim DeMint Big Winner

    Barack Obama had a chance to demonstrate that he had a little FDR in him — by taking the recalcitrance of the DeMint camp and crushing it through executive authority, by triggering the authorities of the Fourteenth Amendment in the Constitution — and forcing a great national fight over the system of checks and balances between branches of government.

    Bill Clinton would have done the same. Reagan too I think. LBJ and FDR also. But fundamentally, Obama chose muddling through, conceding to the hard core fiscal right — only to assure that Senator Jim DeMint’s hard-edged and politically hungry team will engage in similar battles with the White House over and over and over again

    .

    Jack

  105. Jack,
    I’ve only done work in the past for DOD and for USAID. Both did pay as contracted. Sadly, both agencies, due to their crazy bureaucratic requirements, paid at least 30% more than a comparable commercial move of exactly the same commodities.

    What if that is the norm throughout? 30% of a 5 trillion dollar yearly expenditure…..

    Interesting huh

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