Open Thread

I am on vacation until Monday, May 7. But, as always, our threads go on. Carry on.

We’ll be in Gloucester MA (Cressy’s Beach, Stage Fort Park) on Sunday, April 29, at 6:30 PM ET for a sunset (7:30 PM ET) remembrance of our Trail Mix pal Sean Holton, for those in the neighborhood who might be able to join us.

192 thoughts on “Open Thread”

  1. Margaret, are you grieving
    Over Goldengrove unleaving?
    Leaves, like the things of man, you
    With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?
    Ah! as the heart grows older
    It will come to such sights colder
    By and by, nor spare a sigh
    Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;
    And yet you will weep and know why.
    Now no matter, child, the name:
    Sorrow’s springs are the same.
    Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed
    What héart héard of, ghóst guéssed:
    It is the blight man was born for,
    It is Margaret you mourn for.

    Gerard Manley Hopkins
    Spring and Fall: to a Young Child

  2. Godspeed to Sean & wishing a glorius send-off for him. I will be there in spirit that evening.

    rr – Hope you are up watching MoJo from Fenway. I even forced myself to click the HD button to watch.

  3. Craig..are you doing like what I did when I took off for vacation? Are you taking off and telling us not to call..don’t write..forget you knew me? Have a wonderful time.

    Is this topic going to get really long or are you going to change thread heads every now and again? If it gets really makes it tough to check it from Iphony. You have to thumb forever. There’s no good page down mechanism. You can end up with a thumb burn.

  4. I mentioned the Trail on my blog. I have one of my best friends who comes there who has no interest in politics. I’m very used to that down here in my neck of the woods. If I mention politics here.. people look at me like I have some nasty STD. They move away. That’s why I come here. I come here to be with other people who are passionate for politics..PFP. Not only are passionate about other things as well. You are passionate people. I like passionate people,

  5. In the style of open threads of long ago, a limerick:

    A writer & rider named Sean,
    who knew Craig in the time before dawn,
    graced us with his presence
    and each thread with wise essence,
    from The Trail he will never be gone.

  6. Yeah Patd..that’s what I meant..happy hemp day. Anything special about that vodka? Does it have an additonal kick? And where can one find it?

  7. Blue… yeah I’m watching a bit of Morning Joe. By the time this day is over, me and millions of other Red Sox fans will be drunk with Fenway Fever.

    Craig… I’ll try my best to cheer you up in Gloucester… but bagpipes always make me cry.

  8. Renee, enjoy this day…100 years of one of the greatest rivalries in all of sports…wouldn’t want it any other way…

  9. I’ll have to find a bottle of that Purgatory vodka. I have a friend who loves her vodka..and her hemp.

  10. Coreen… thanks. The Red Sox have gotten off to a bad start this season… but today is special even if they lose. Good luck to your Yankees this year.

    BTW… I’m wearing my #34 Ortiz t-shirt today.

  11. Craig…

    Believe it or not I’m truly at a loss for words for the pain you must still be feeling over the loss of Sean that you still feel.

    So let me just leave this for your consideration to read when Sean’s ashes are released into the Heavens.

    Psalms 23

    My favorite verse from the Old Testament of the Bible which I say everyday.

    May you find peace in your heart as Sean is lifted up into Heaven.

  12. For reasons that escape me still, I have always felt that the type of send off one receives is terribly important, and makes a real difference.
    Sean’s is going to be beautiful, and very special.

  13. You can play the third party/ write in card all you want to but the fact remains that Mitt and company would gladly introduce mandatory pauperism as the law of the land.
    Vote for a third party or a write in to suite yourself, please don’t take the rest of us down with you.

    Sorry, guess we just have to agree to disagree..It won’t be my third party vote or write in that takes us down or gives us a Romney president..It will be the WEAK Democratic Party being lead by the fake Democrat Obama that would throw SS and Medicare up as a “Grand Bargain”..Democrats stand for nothing and fight basically to be the number 2 corporate party..All this partisanship has gotten us exactly where? Your vote for the Democratic Party keeps it going to the right and yes by all means keep giving them your vote so that this trend continues. Its certainly easier to blame the voter than to look at the party or its so-called leader and it makes it very easy for the party elites to keep people in line..

  14. My lasting impression is of the marvelous job Lard did in preparing all of us for his departure. Such a special act of humanity.

    And Sean, may I ask a favor of you? Now that you’re headed out to sea, keep a watch for our daughter Alice. She should be in your waters by now and would be thrilled to show you the ropes!

  15. jace, another thing that escapes me is why is it better child rearing in goper eyes for a low-waged non-relative and generally speaking less educated stranger do it for the first 3 years than a willing mother?
    gopers will vote to give tax credits or even fund childcare but only if the mother opts to work outside the home. seems illogical and will cost more in the short and long run.

  16. My lasting impression is of the marvelous job Lard did in preparing all of us for his departure. Such a special act of humanity.

    flatus, and we will never know how many out there were helped, perhaps even lives saved or at least experienced better-lived last days, due to sean’s gift to us.

  17. Tony,

    All that you say may indeed be correct. At this point there is no viable third way.
    This election may well come down to a handful of votes, in one or two swing states. Every vote for a third candidate, or a write in, is essentially a vote for Romney.
    Yes the two party system has given us little to choose from, but just now the deck is stacked.
    If you liked the Bush years, you will love the Romney years. Romney has the potential to be far more disastrous than Bush, if for no other reason than he actually has a brain, and a secret plan.
    I won’t have to hold my nose to vote for Obama, because Mitt and company are the ones who aren’t passing the smell test. 😉

  18. Okay dressage may be elite, expensive, and out of touch with the common human being, but it is beautiful to watch:


  19. Sean, say hello to my mom – by now her ashes have to be dispersed into all 7 seas so she shouldn’t be to hard to find.

  20. tony, even tho’ i too was (and am) a hillary supporter, my vote for obama will not be a vote for the party (as you accused jace) but for a man who has done a fairly decent job with what he was handed. i still can’t find where as you charge he dumped on ss or medicare other than accept the fact that both programs need some discussion and tweaking.
    even our so called greatest presidents had serious flaws. i saw what happened to this country because of well-intentioned and principled voting (think mcgovern, nader etc.)and the quest for perfection in a leader. never again, please.


    Can’t really disagree with your sentiments as i used to think the same way regarding my vote..I have come to realize though my vote is my own and i’m not going to give it up easily to a party or President that doesn’t deserve it..As far as trusting President Obama, i don’t trust him anymore than i trust Romney..That said, even if in the end come November i voted for the fake Democrat Obama, i’m certainly never going to let a Party or candidate know that whatever they do my allegiance is to them cause the other guys are worse..That’s the way they think you know..Those Hillary supporters, gays, blacks, latino’s, liberals have know where else to go!! They can continue to move right and sell us out with ‘Grand Bargain’s” as we prove their point..

  22. Pat,
    You’ve never heard about President Obama’s “grand Bargain” offer to Boener? I have posted endless links since he put it on the table..The most recent being a detailed acct from i think The New Yorker..

    (as you accused jace)

    Yep, if you chose to put it that way, partisanship is a better term! I recognize it as i practiced it most of my life..I respect your opinion again as i used to share it but thinking that way got us President Obama..I’m glad you have a high opinion of the job are president has done as i remember what that felt like with President Clinton and it feels good..
    As far as tweaking SS and Medicare on that i strongly disagree, tweak those foreign bases and all the wars first before you take from the little guy..

  23. harborwoman,

    There was no way, once the public option was off the table, for Obama to predict what insurance premiums would do. Control of said premiums was, and always has been, in the hands of the insurance companies. One way to make Obama…and his new law…look bad was to raise premiums when there was genuinely no need to do so. The law itself is not responsible for the premium increases; insurance companies are. has stated that the law as it is currently implemented has caused about a 1% to 3% increase in premiums of their 9% premium increase. I would guess that the remaining 6% to 8% went to the rising health care costs, profits and upper management bonuses.

    Obama has done absolutely nothing to solve the root cause of health insurance premium increases, the rising health care costs. IMO, President Obama and Congress are in the “pockets” of Wall Street and the large corporations including the insurance companies.

    FactChecking Health Insurance Premiums
    Republicans exaggerate an increase caused by the new law. But Obama promised lower premiums.

    Posted on October 24, 2011

    Health insurance premiums for employer-sponsored family plans jumped a startling 9 percent from 2010 to 2011, and Republicans have blamed the federal health care law. But they exaggerate. The law — the bulk of which has yet to be implemented — has caused only about a 1 percent to 3 percent increase in premiums, according to several independent experts. The rest of the 9 percent rise is due to rising health care costs, as usual.

    On the other hand, the fact that the law caused any increase at all cast more doubt on Obama’s promise that the law “could save families $2,500 in the coming years.” We’ve been calling that claim into question for several years now. The plain fact is that — so far — the law has caused an increase in premiums, though not so large an increase as some Republicans claim.

  24. Pogo, there’s probably a very eclectic group of TM kin out there along with Sean. I don’t know the disposition of Patsi’s remains, but I surely hope she’s out there as well! And no treasured family member needs be left out. The Trail Mix Drifters are loved now as they were in life!

  25. It’s also VERY likely that a vote for an Independent could be a vote for Obama. If the Independent is fiscally conservative..and by that I don’t mean a crook..or someone who favors the rich.

    We need someone who is for fair trade..reasonable tax laws..banking reform..and decent health care reform.

  26. We need someone who has some proof that they aren’t beholding to the special interests. Someone not afraid to tell the truth.

  27. Zimmerman got bond in the amount of $150,000 dollars. Under Florida Law he has to come up with 10% or $15,000 dollars.

    Also the website of Bishop Jenky has turned off the comment section after several people left messages which I have to say went beyond the pale and were quite vile and vulgar.

    I did respond to the reply left to me (I was the first comment) from a Sister whom I assume was responsible for the blog.

    As my first comment and reply were not like the others the Bishop has received, which as I said above, has taken a lot of flack for his remarks from the Pulpit during a Mass.

    Hopefully he will reflect on what he said and apology for his remarks, though I wonder if the Vatican will let him due too the Church’s Doctrine and may silence him now.

    Later all and have a great day.

  28. Obama has been a major disappointment and will continue to be so as he doesn’t appear to have learned any lessons.
    Pat I have a major disagreement with you. Obama was given so much and he accomplished so little.
    He was given a clear mandate by the American people, he had a large majority in the house and a super majority in the senate.
    Yet he couldn’t even accomplish as much as his two previous predecessors neither of who had the support of a majority of the American people.
    Obama is weak and ineffective. He needs to be replaced.

    One thing that Romney has proved in his life is he is not weak and ineffective. He knows how to take charge and he knows how to get things done. As xrep keeps pointing out, he knows how to fire people, that’s not a bad thing imo. There is a lot firing that needs to happen in DC. What I see happening here and elsewhere is a lot of people on both the right and left getting caught up in the culture wars issues As they bicker back and forth at each other with the same tired old stuff, they are letting this country go down the crapper.

    I’m not going to vote culture wars. I want this government fixed, I want it to start governing again. And that is what is going to get my vote this year be it the house, senate or president.
    So far Romney is the only person in the race that has demonstrated he knows how to fix things.


  29. The dissenting opinion against Citizen’s United came from Justice Stevens. He nailed it.

    If I remember correctly..he was appointed by Gerald Ford..a Republican.

  30. Jack,
    Excellent post! Funny, can’t disagree with you at all regarding Romney..Still, very hard for me to ignore his speech to the NRA the other day and his anti-gay speak..Yet, when i listen to President Obama mouth all the correct words and do the complete opposite or nothing at all, what’s the difference? Have the culture wars become null and void as were so broken as a country that nothing the right wingers say could get done anyways?

  31. jace,

    An interesting hypothesis:

    Romney is elected President, take that con man Obama.

    Democrats win both the House and Senate.

    Is this grid lock or will Romney and the Democrats work together?

  32. ct says Is this topic going to get really long or are you going to change thread heads every now and again?

    no worries ct, i’ve preset new threads for every couple days. first part of this is a “stayworkcation,” so many put off chores to do around TM headquarters. such a slow time in politics, just seemed a good chance for a break. today I clean the grill. ugh!

  33. Tonyb,

    With Democrats like Senators Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Ben Nelson (D-NE) who needs Republicans.

  34. whskyjack…

    You are aware that Mormons prefer hiring Mormons over others religious affiliations I guess as a law suit has been filed by 3 people who worked at one of Bains Company’s and allege that they were fired because of their religion?

    I do not want a Executive Branch of Government run exclusively by one Religious Organization.

  35. Jamie… thanks for that dressage video. Not only was that horse beautiful… but watching the horse and rider work together as one gave me chills.

    OMG…. after this election we will be a socialist, fascist, hating poor people, hating rich people, tax and spend, austerity and tax cuts, best healthcare system, worst healthcare system, well educated, ignorant, religious, secular, etc. etc. (anybody got anything else to add) type of nation. Sounds bi-polar to me.

  36. Tony, I offer this admonition: It’s better to be happy than right.

    In the case of Mr Obama, the one key legislation that he did enact was the end of DADT in favor of open service of any qualified American regardless of sexual preference.

    I’ve not searched out for it, but what is your sense of the mood of Log Cabin republicans?

  37. In honor of Sean I aspire to more intelligent and better written snark.

  38. “So far Romney is the only person in the race that has demonstrated he knows how to fix things.”

    How is being handed every single thing you have ever supposedly accomplished in your life without having to lift a single real finger of effort “knowing how to fix things”?

    The man is a compulsive liar who simply says whatever is likely to accrue to his benefit and screw everyone else.

  39. Romney appears to me to know little about fixing things, but quite a lot about lining his own pockets at the expense of those less powerful than he. His willingness to acquire businesses and strip them of their ability to maintain or return to profitability, while firing those little people who were in his way, displays a stunning meanness in the way he is willing to do what he calls “achieving success”.

    Oh, yeah…and what Jamie said!

  40. Mitt Romney a job creator? I think NOT!

    Romney’s Shaky Job Claims
    Posted on January 5, 2012 , Updated on January 6, 2011

    Mitt Romney has taken to saying that he created more than 100,000 net jobs through his work in the private sector, and more jobs as governor than President Obama has created since taking office. But the first claim is unproven, and the second is misleading.

    Unlike Obama, Romney took office during an economic uptick. Massachusetts had a net job growth of 1.4 percent under Romney. However, that was far slower growth than the national average of 5.3 percent. As Romney’s opponents have frequently, and correctly, noted, Massachusetts ranked 47th in job growth over the entirety of Romney’s term. The only states that did worse: Louisiana, Michigan and Ohio.

  41. PIT…Read your reply, complete with FactCheck stuff, and it’s still hard for me to wrap my brain around just how this new law caused an increase in insurance premiums. I cling to my belief that it simply gave the insurance companies an excuse to raise premiums at a time when they really didn’t need to raise them. If they are already at profitability levels that allow them to pay their CEO untold millions, I assume that it is greed for more that causes them to continue increasing premiums. Greed…and the added bonus of making Obama look bad….

  42. Craig…

    My thoughts will be with you as you give Lard his sendoff on April 29. I truly wish I could be there. Though I never met him in person, he was always one of my very most favorite folks on the Trail. I miss his voice! How much harder it must be for you say goodbye to your best friend. So…know that you will be traveling with prayers and kind thoughts.


    I agree, fake Democrats come to mind!


    It’s better to be happy than right.

    Good sound advice..I have only met two gay Republicans in my life and for the life of me i don’t know what makes them tick..With the two i have met, Rick being the closest to me, well its about money and taxes..I don’t know as i told Jack earlier how they overlook all the anti-gay acts coming from Republican’s, i can’t but they do..
    My sense from what i read of the Log Cabin crowd is they will continue to vote Republican as money usauly trumps!

    In the case of Mr Obama, the one key legislation that he did enact was the end of DADT in favor of open service of any qualified American regardless of sexual preference.

    I know and i give him credit for signing that as well as GM/Chrysler but i guess i’m not a single issue voter..If i do end up voting for Obama it will only be because i live in a swing state and i don’t want Romney to win Florida..Ah but that would put me back to where i was 4 years ago, lesser of 2 evils..

  44. How is being handed every single thing you have ever supposedly accomplished in your life without having to lift a single real finger of effort “knowing how to fix things”?

    Sorry , Jamie but that is just not true.

    one example that proves you wrong

    Facing financial duress, Bain Capital partner Mitt Romney was asked to rejoin and lead Bain & Co. as interim CEO. Bringing along two lieutenants from Bain Capital, Romney began a traveling campaign to rally employees at all Bain offices globally. Romney also negotiated a complex settlement between the Bain partnership and the firm’s lenders, including a $10 million reduction in the $38 million Bain owed the Bank of New England,[10] which by that time had been seized by the FDIC and placed in Chapter 7 liquidation.

    The Boston Globe pointed out that:

    “Over several weeks, Romney managed negotiations with the banks and among the partners… The moment came when negotiations produced a package in which Bill Bain and the founding partners would give up control of the firm, turning back $30 million they had taken from the ESOP and $100 million in notes they held against the firm.”

  45. WJ

    Try reading Bain’s account of the same events in “The Real Romney”. He was given a created company and guaranteed that he would get all of his previous pay plus raises plus bonuses with no consequences should Bain Capital fail and he took that gift and shafted workers left and right. So yes he “fixed things” by being ruthless not to the point of profit but to the point of greed and violent acquisition of wealth.

  46. didn’t read it did you Jamie?

    He was brought in to save his old company’s butt and he did. They don’t give you those types of jobs because you are pretty. They hand them to you because you are good. The same for Bain Capital they don’t hand you control of millions of dollars because you are somebodies son. They do it because you have proven you can do the job and make piles of money with it.
    It is the way that cut throat business works.

    He may have gotten his foot in the door because of his rich family connections but they don’t turn over the place to just anybody. It is about money and they are damn serious about money.


  47. sorry jamie, i posted yesterday i’ve decided to take this slow time to take a break, get some chores done and get ready for gloucester next week.

  48. Jack

    I have no problem with good businessmen making a profit. I don’t even have a problem with nepotism and sweetheart deals for relatives. I have a major problem with greed, lust, and violence. As far as I can tell everything Romney has touched has had the result of injuring others for the sake of acquisition.

  49. Craig

    Sorry I missed the announcement. Thought you were still doing the “gender politics” show. Have a nice relaxing stretch to do what must be done.

  50. If Romney had been in charge in 2009 instead of Obama maybe this would have happened to Bank of America.

    Bill Bain and the founding partners would give up control of the firm, turning back $30 million they had taken from the ESOP and $100 million in notes they held against the firm.”

    This, btw almost makes me a Romney supporter.


  51. I have a major problem with greed, lust, and violence.

    Irrelevant to your argument. I will take this attempt to change the subject as a concession.

    Back to work, later

  52. Just to tweak Jack’s 11:39 am post, willard likes firing Americans, but likes hiring Chinese. This view of America and Americans as resources to be exploited makes me angry. I despise postmodern slash and burn economics.

    oh,bummer has been a disappointment, especially for me, as I was a supporter back in ’07. Yet I cannot in good conscience vote for a neocon, even if he isn’t an oil man. Whoever wrote that a President willard would nominate alito jr. and scalia jr. to the high court stated the best case for oh,bummer. Kagen and Sotomayor were the best SCOTUS appointments in 18 years. The last time a republican named a worthy person to the high bench was 22 years ago. Since then, republican presidents named thomas, roberts, and alito to the bench, men who have no concern for individual liberties (except for rich folks who have discretionary funds to spend on politics), democratic election processes, or the ecosystems that support human life.

    In view of the republican habit of naming fascists to the high court, I advise voting for the far lesser of the two weevils.

  53. No it isn’t a concession. You see I am a “TRUE” conservative. I go way back to Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations and the moral philosophy of David Hume. Capitalism cannot survive in the absence of moral considerations. Today’s “screw you” capitalism carries the seeds of its own destruction and the country will fall if it fails to acknowledge just how far it has fallen from the ideal.

  54. Some days he hits is out of the park…today is one of those tell it like it is days for Mike Lupica…

    Obama can’t keep kicking Bush…

    “He may have gotten himself elected running on Bush’s record. Now he has to make sure he doesn’t get unelected running on his own. Nobody wants to hear any longer about the tough times Obama inherited, just the tough times they are facing right now. What people in this country really want to believe, more than anything is this: That there are better days ahead in America.”

  55. He was given a clear mandate by the American people, he had a large majority in the house and a super majority in the senate.

    jack, that same mandate applied to the congress critters who actually have the power to enact our laws. not the prez, he only gets to veto… . where were they?
    so he didn’t do everything we wanted. he did do some surprisingly well like appoint hillary and a few other notably good others as xr said

    Kagen and Sotomayor were the best SCOTUS appointments in 18 years.

  56. Coreen, that’s true. The only legitimate reference at this point to the Bush economy IMHO is when Romney suggests policies that are the same as Bush’s were. That opens the door to look back and point out where those policies took us the last time they were tried. I can’t say whether that’s what Romney is doing, I frankly haven’t paid that much attention to what he says. I’ll start listening a little more closely in due time.

  57. Pogo, likewise have not paid close attention to specifics (not sure there have been any from either Obama or Romney…beyond doggie do, cookiegate, etch a sketching, yada,yada,yada) but have not some
    of Obama’s supporters criticized him for in essence continuing Bush policies…so not sure that looking back & blaming Bush serves any useful purpose going forward…for either side…

  58. Hi Coreen
    Fortunately the American public already knows whose fault it is ..all the polling shows that

    If Mittens can make a case (so far NOT) that Obama could have done things to improve the economic outlook faster that might cause some problems. Everything Romney has tried so far…not so much

    Obama needs to point out AGAIN the connection between the Affordable Healthcare Act and the economy and start putting out those horrible healthcare stories again.

    I don’t think Rob Portman will be the vp — As Jace so succinctly put it…..THE BUSH BUDGET DIRECTOR????????

  59. Hi KG…was hoping to chat a bit today, maybe when you get some time, let me know…

    I’m just not sure what to make of this election, I honestly have no strong feelings about it…right now, I am not inclined to vote for Obama…I know, that is blasphemy…but he was never a leader & as far as I am concerned has not acquired any leadership skills over the last 3+ years, & just doesn’t deserve another 4 years…I am open to convincing over the next few months…going to count on you to provide some reasons…

    As far as health care…way back when it started I thought most people wanted to see
    their costs either reduced or at least frozen, that did not happen, instead we wound up with something that just about all sides
    find lacking…

  60. Coreen
    Today kind of hectic but anytime on Sunday
    name the time and I’ll give you a call

    Certainly in agreement with what you are saying
    about Obama and healthcare. Because of the recent healthcare hearings in Cal — we are being reminded graphically of the problem

    People on social security and medicare/medi-cal (medicaid in California) their entire raise from social security was a give-back to their medical costs

    Blue Cross has raised its rates 90% over the last three years. Kaiser is nickle and diming their patients to death and gives the appearance of quality care with about a million errors per visit.

    Unless you are bleeding to death or something similar I say avoid the medical system at all costs and get yourself a good herbalist.

  61. KG, Sunday, anytime that is convenient to you, should be around all day…we are supposed to be getting much needed rain much of the day…believe it or not, they say we are in a ‘severe drought’…

  62. “So far Romney is the only person in the race that has demonstrated he knows how to fix things.”

    Yep, I’ll bet he can even ‘make the trains run on time’ 😉

  63. I’m with you guys who feel that Sean can help you out with your loved one who have passed. From what I’ve heard and seen of Sean..if anyone can do it..he can do it. JMHO

  64. Just a short time ago while I was watching the news I caught another look at the photo of Zimmerman’s head showing two bloody areas.

    Now I saw this while watching the bond hearing,but I missed the time that it was taken. This time I caught it and it showed that it was taken with a cell phone and had a time stamp a little after 9pm.

    Since there was no blood at the police station video showing on his head I now wonder if he opened the wound so there would be proof of how badly Trayvon Martin was beating him.

    Of course the time stamp on the camera could be wrong but makes one wonder. Also Zimmerman’s Attorney said he had medical record of the broken nose.

    Broken noses bleed profusely and the eyes get blackend right away which the police video does not show. So was his nose really broken?

    I await the trial to see what evidence the prosecutor has,however I think Zimmerman is guilty of at least Manslaughter if not 2nd Degree Murder.

    Later gang and have a good evening.

  65. Mitt Romney vowed Friday that, if elected president, he would build the controversial Keystone Pipeline linking oil deposits in Canada to refineries on the Texas gulf coast.
    “I will build that pipeline if I have to do it myself,” Romney said during a speech before state Republican Party leaders gathered at a retreat in Arizona.

    Get to building Mitt, and kindly leave the rest of us alone. Git r done pal. 😉

  66. AP…this is how I picture it. Warning..this is only a vision. I see Zimmermann as a cop wanna be. He was getting a kick out of patrolling his hood..with his gun..keeping the bad guys out. That particular day..he got caught up in the adventure. He pushed got out of hand. He couldn’t stop himself. He killed a young man armed with only skittles and a iced tea.

  67. Excuse me…he killed a kid. That kid will never get the opportunity to be a young man.

  68. ct…

    That’s how I kinda see it. He was told not to follow him, he said okay then proceeded to follow him anyway.

    Since a young man is now dead it’s his word against a dead boy. However I do not think he expected to have a silent witness who heard the beginning of the confrontation,Trayvon’s girlfriend on the phone.

    The minute he was told by the dispatcher he shouldn’t follow him it no longer falls under the SYG Law. It makes no difference at that time who actually started the fight. The only reason he was not arrested was the fact that he killed the only other witness to the confrontation so there was no one to dispute his story.

    I’m sure that the prosecutor truly believes that she can prove her case or she would not have brought it forward to the courts.

    Back to Chris, later.

  69. Meanwhile, in other news, Jeb Bush says he would be open to a vice presidential spot. Bush says however that he does not think that he would ever be asked.

    Oh Jeb, what gave you your first clue? Was it your last name, or ‘stand your ground’?

    I guess that would be Mitt and Jeb, or perhaps Mutt and Jeff. 😕

  70. just doesn’t deserve another 4 years…

    coreen, are you saying mitt does? if there were a viable third choice many of us (gopers, dembats and indies) would jump at it (him or her). as things stand now, only one of those guys is going to win.
    so far mitt is espousing what didn’t work under shrub and i can’t see the country economically surviving another trickle down effort or more spreading thin our military wasting their lives and our monies in unending wars.

  71. btw, would it be accurate to call those 21 ladies in cartagena “secret servicing agents”?

  72. Mitt The Fixer, reminds me as much as anything of the weather in my native Wyoming.

    If you don’t like it, just wait a minute or two it’ll change, usually for the worse.

  73. When you refer to the Ryan budget plan as marvelous, isn’t that a tacit admission that you don’t have one of your own?

  74. btw, would it be accurate to call those 21 ladies in cartagena “secret servicing agents”?


    Only if you are under cover(s). 😉

  75. Jace, correct…I said Obama doesn’t deserve another 4 years…please try not to infer anything else from my words…

    whether Romney deserves the chance, can’t say at this time..for me, I will surely consider what develops over the next several months…I simply will not rule out Mitt Romney at this point…as unacceptable as that may sound to most here…

  76. “I will build that pipeline if I have to do it myself,” Romney said during a speech before state Republican Party leaders gathered at a retreat in Arizona”

    Hey Mitt, at least you won’t have to fire anybody.

  77. Coreen,

    I am not sure to what you are referring.

    I have not inferred anything.

    I have many issues with President Obama, and I am not sure that he deserves another four years. I am quite certain however that the country does not deserve another 4 years of republican rule. In short we have suffered enough from their preferred economic practices.

    XR said it best when he called the president , far the lesser of two evils. 😉

  78. btw, would it be accurate to call those 21 ladies in cartagena “secret servicing agents”?

    I thought that was the job of internal affairs.

  79. Jace, generally try to say what I mean, you asking if I was saying that mitt does ‘deserve 4 years by referencing my statement that obama does not’ was not what my words said…that’s all…

    Have no issue with you thinking that a repub.
    doesn’t deserve 4 years…hopefully for me it will not come down to selecting the lesser of 2 evils…

    For what its worth, my pet peeve with this
    administration goes way back to promises by Obama while campaigning to address the looming foreclosure disaster by getting a law passed allowing ‘cramdown’ of mortgages in bankruptcy, but when he had the opportunity…at his request…the language was removed from the stimulus bill,never to see the light of day…just another when pigs fly moments….

    ‘Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., the chief Senate sponsor of the bill, said Obama persuaded him in a White House meeting Friday to remove the bankruptcy proposal from an economic recovery package to ensure it doesn’t jeopardize the stimulus bill. But Obama pledged his support for the bankruptcy solution, Durbin said.

    Obama said he would work with Durbin to attach the proposal to other “must pass” legislation with the hope that supporters of the overall bill would not vote against it because of the bankruptcy provisions.’

  80. Coreen,

    Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    During the 2008 election, Obama promised us recovery and prosperity, hope and change. When Barack Obama was elected with strong majorities in both houses of Congress, he had an unprecedented opportunity to shape American history by bringing the country’s new financial oligarchy under control. Obama could have done great things. Instead, he gave us deterioration, poverty, despair and steadfastness.

    This is the Obama approach to middle class interests in a nutshell. Opt for initiatives that are clearly going to fail over ones that have good odds of success but cost real money. Obama seems to be getting his wish of being a transformative president. Everything he touches turns to dross.

    I voted for Obama in 2008 because, for a change, I was voting for my concept of the person and not the usual lesser of two evils. With Obama runing in 2012 I will hold my nose and vote for Obama as the lesser of two evils. To me it is voting for the candidate that will do the least amount of damage when elected.

    The major priority is the control of the House and Senate including competent leadership versus what the Democrats have now. Congress will have to keep the President, regardless of which one, under control.

    The main thing is to vote! The Democrats didn’t do that in 2010 because they were disenchanted with Obama and now we have a mess with redistricting. Maybe the Democrats have learned but I doubt it.

  81. Coreen ,
    Gitmo is still open and the patriot act is still in force. Trust me I have my disappointments with Obama.

    There has been nothing said by any Republican to date that is going to change that.

    Mitt and company are offering nothing more than warmed over Bush regarding the economy and they don’t even have the decency to address matters of civil liberties.
    As for the housing crises you have it from Mitt the fixer himself, just let it bottom out.

    I don’t think that dems. can retake the house, and I doubt that they can hold the senate.

    With that in mind, I will take Obama over anyone else on the horizon in this cycle.

  82. Purple, I hear you…knowing how you feel, how do you go out and again vote for someone that you have no faith in…the lesser of 2 evils approach just doesn’t convince me..

  83. I simply will not rule out Mitt Romney at this point…as unacceptable as that may sound to most here…

    Hi Coreen,
    Good posts today, thanks..I understand where your coming from..Vote for whoever makes you feel they will do right by this country..Trail Mixers’s from what I’ve seen will except and respect your vote..Be true to you..

  84. The major priority is the control of the House and Senate including competent leadership versus what the Democrats have now. Congress will have to keep the President, regardless of which one, under control.

    purple, i agree and it matters not the party if those in “control” are more the constructive progressive types rather than regressive reactionary kochheads. it takes a congress (in the sense of coming together, congregating and compromising for the public good) to make a country. not only are we losing our middle economical class, we no longer have our middle political class.

  85. The Internet provides us with the only way we can fight what’s going on. They know it. We must not let anything happen to it. Can we stop them from controlling it?

  86. I am pondering this morning how crazy it is that we have these two specimens for president to choose between. I really feel like there’s not much difference between the two. As we all know they are both beholding to MONEY. It’s six or one or a half dozen of the other.

    It’s very much like sports. You got your favorite team and no matter how lousy their playing you’re gonna support them. (I know cuz I think it will be back to the Ain’ts for me this year.)

    No one would dare even consider looking for a new team.’s crazy.

  87. I’d think that this team mentality would mainly just affect those who didn’t really study and analyze politics. Well..I guess that was just stinkin thinkin.

  88. “In addition to the money raised by the Obama campaign, the Democratic National Committee raised $18 million during the month of March (giving the allied forces a combined total of $53 million). Romney, to this point, has been unable to take advantage of any joint fundraising operations with the RNC. With the Republican primary now all but formally concluded, the expectation is that his numbers — both number of donors and their dollar amounts — will rise dramatically. Earlier this week, in fact, the Romney campaign projected that it would raise roughly $800 million for the fall campaign.”

    With the advent of Citizens United this is probably the last time a democrat will ever play on anything resembling a level playing field.

  89. Coreen,
    Thanks so much for the Daily News link yesterday..
    This is quote from the piece and from an old favorite of mine, Mario Cuomo..

    “The Republicans have a real good shot to win here, because Obama has not been as strong as we, the Democrats, want him to be. But the Republicans have to come forward with more of a plan than just beating Obama. Because that does nothing to give us a better America. You want to beat Obama? Give people a chance to vote for you intelligently, not just destroy Obama. Your good ideas against his.”

    Read more:

  90. Bill O’Reilly Said What?
    by Taylor Marsh

    Glee, which received the GLAAD Media Award last year for Outstanding Comedy Series, raised the bar for diversity on network television again last night, when it introduced a new character named Unique, a transgender African American student and performer in rival glee club Vocal Adrenaline. – Glee Introduces Its First Transgender Character

  91. “You want to beat Obama? Give people a chance to vote for you intelligently, not just destroy Obama. Your good ideas against his.”

    We had eight years of Republican ‘good ideas’.

    I think I’ll pass this time around. 😉

  92. Jace,
    I agree, as i haven’t heard anything different from Romney other than rehashed Bush BS!
    That said, what new idea’s do Democrats have? What vision has President Obama given for America in a second term? Maybe i don’t pay attention enough cause i must have missed it..Oh, yep, its vote for me cause my second term won’t be as bad as a first term of a President Romney! I’m sure true but how very sad for the people of this country..

  93. If watching Glee makes kids want to experiment with homosexuality, I guess that watching O’Reilly will make old guys like me want to experiment with young women in the shower. Luffa anyone? 😉

  94. Yep Tony,
    It’s a bitch to be sure. I don’t think that there is much of a vision for an Obama second term. I guess his campaign motto ought to be something along the lines,of
    ‘how could I possibly do worse?’ or ‘love is better the second time around’.
    Unfortunately republicans continually let slip little snippets of their vision for America, and that vision includes more trickle down,no minimum wage, and coupon care for the elderly, just to name a few. When their entire vision becomes complete, not even rose colored glasses will make it a very appealing picture.

  95. love is better the second time around’.

    Oh your on a roll, stop it your killin me!! 😛

  96. Love is lovelier the second time around
    Much more wonderful with both feet on the ground
    The second time you hear your love song sung
    Makes you think perhaps that love like youth
    Is wasted on the young.

    As theme songs go not bad.

  97. .”Me thinks there’s much more afoot with his kind..”


    I think it’s called a foot fetish. 😉

  98. As he fights his way through a tough Senate re-election campaign, Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) is making a lifestyle change.

    In a Friday interview on Boston’s WTKK-FM radio, the incumbent said he is giving up booze until November’s Election Night. Brown noted that he has not had any type of alcohol since January 1, referring to the adjustment as “one of those New Year’s things” that he did “on a stupid bet.”

    That a way Scottie, I’m sure the temperance league will approve. Who knows, maybe one day you too could be president. Worked for W.

  99. he is giving up booze until November’s Election Night

    jace, might have lost the southy votes with that. altho’ they’re probably looking on the bright side with himself not imbibing there’s that much more left to go around for them.
    wonder if the abstinence will go goper-wide in honor of their new teetotaling leader.gopers are big on signing pledges. might be why brown’s on the wagon only ’til election day.

  100. Willie Has Signed the Pledge

    O May, have you heard, the glorious news
    That Mother was telling today?
    Our Willie has signed the Temperance Pledge
    And put his bad habits away.

    No more through the night
    We’ll watch for him home,
    And shudder his footsteps to hear.
    But gladly rejoice to shun him no more
    Or see him with trembling and fear….

    Willie has signed THE PLEDGE (Signed THE PLEDGE!)
    Willie has signed THE PLEDGE (Signed THE PLEDGE!)
    Happier days will come to us now!
    Willie has signed THE PLEDGE!

  101. I think that President Obama would be able to acomplish a lot with a second term.

    Once the Republicans approve his budget for 2013 whether he wins or loses, God I pray he don’t lose, he can let the Bush Tax Cuts expire with no problems.

    Depending on whether or not the Democrats retain the Senate (hopefully with a 60 vote majority), he can than do a tax cut for the middle class and poor which would restore those cuts lost when the Bush cuts expire.

    I know, you think that he won’t and I understand that. Unless and until he has the votes to get anything passed in the Senate we will not get the needed bills to keep our economy from tanking and improving.

    Even holding the slight majority he has now will not do any good unless the Senate Majority leader does something about the filibuster.

    Everyone with a Democratic Senator should write and call that Senator and ask them why they should expect you to vote for them. You should through up in their faces the fact that more could have been done if they had listened to the base who put them in office and eliminated the filibuster.

    Tell them that if Harry Reid retains the Majority Leadership Position and they do not have more than 60 votes to bring up or pass anything that you will not vote for them.

    Tell them that you do not want them to make any deals with the Republicans since they have no honor, itegrity or morals and you refuse to vote for someone who will not put the country, Constitution and America first before party.

    Tell them that you would rather vote for Obama and let the Republicans win and destroy our country before you will give them your vote.

    Since the last time you voted for them they betrayed your vote and trust in them. And after the Republicans complete the destruction of our country the people will revolt, drag them out of their offices and homes to replace all of them and restore our Constitution and our rights.

    I do not know if that would help, but it will at least give them something to think about. Who knows, maybe they will finally stand up for America for the first time in a long time.

    At least with Obama we can still have a possible veto to keep any laws that are bad from being enacted. If not than it would make no difference anyway and at least we have some chance of moving forward instead of backward without another revolution.

    Have a great day.

  102. AP , Obama already sent a proposed 3.8 trillion dollar budget to the senate
    The vote was 97 to 0 against even taking it up for debate
    The democratic controlled senate hasn’t passed their own budget in three effing years

  103. You can’t give the poor and lower middle class a tax break on the federal level , they don’t pay any federal income tax already ,
    Fifty percent of American households don’t pay federal income tax

  104. The NDAA was co sponsored in the senate by Democrat Carl levin and R. John McCain
    46 democrats , 40 republicans voted yea
    6 republicans 6 democrats , 1 independent voted nay
    Democrat president Obama signed it into law

  105. The patriot act extended by a democratic controlled house , senate , and presidency

  106. The New Republican Anti Tax pledge:

    We promise never to raise taxes on booze. 😉

  107. “wonder if the abstinence will go goper-wide in honor of their new teetotaling leader.gopers are big on signing pledges. might be why brown’s on the wagon only ’til election day.”


    Can you say, ‘got milk’? 😉

  108. Democratic president FDR set precedent for rounding up enemies of state en masse by executive order 9066
    Democrat president Obama issued executive order for execution of three American citizens in Yemen , one being a 17 year old kid
    Democratic president Obama signed NDAA into law

  109. Vast Mexico Bribery Case Hushed Up by Wal-Mart
    After Top-Level Struggle
    Confronted with evidence of widespread corruption in Mexico, top Wal-Mart executives focused more on damage control than on rooting out wrongdoing, an examination by The New York Times found.

    I’m shocked,shocked I say! 😉

  110. mqw

    Because of the Federal tax cuts for the wealthy, the states and localities have increased taxes and fees. Who pays the majority of taxes and fees – the poor and middle class. It is a transfer of the wealth to the 1% and the costs to the bottom 50%. Good going folks.

  111. AP,

    The Dems. would have to hold 67 or 68 seats in the Senate
    in order to get 60 votes. Too many Liebermans, Webbs, and Nelsons.

    They will be lucky to hold the Senate much less have a super majority.

    It really sucks to be a progressive Dem. in the US Senate. :sad:

  112. Fifty percent of American households don’t pay federal income tax

    I believe the correct # is 47% but even so 87% of all Americans pay federal taxes. An equally foolish number to throw around.

    What is the Twain quote, “liars , damn liars and statistics” ?



  113. China used to have two classes, the party elite and the peasants.

    Apparently that worked out so well, that the US is attempting to repeat the experiment. So far everything appears to be on track.

    We didn’t lose China we just brought it over here. 😐

  114. Jace
    Yet Clinton was able to pass a very progressive budget with tax raises on the wealthy and he didn’t have a super majority.
    He couldn’t even say that he had any coat tails and winning with 43% of the vote certainly didn’t give him a mandate.
    Yet he got stuff passed.
    I’m tired of the excuses for Obama’s failings.


  115. love the edit button

    Changed the “did” to” didn’t” A big difference in meaning.


  116. Jack,

    Mandates are so over rated.

    This is so depressing that I am taking my wife to the prom tonight. Time to get away. 😉


  117. Tonyb,

    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) the peak in manufacturing jobs was in June 1979 with 19,676,000. The decline in manufacturing jobs started in 1998, thank you Bill Clinton for NAFTA, and continued through George W. Bush’s reign. Clinton cost us 413,000 manufacturing jobs or about 2.3% from 1998 through 2000. George W. Bush cost us 4,317,000 manufacturing jobs or about 25.1%. The Great Recession from December 2007 to June 2009 eliminated another 1,389,000 manufacturing jobs during Obama’s tenure in 2009 for a total of 6,119,000 or 34.7% manufacturing jobs lost since December 1997. Obama has added 577,000 manufacturing jobs during 2010, 2011 and 2012. He is at either May 2009 on the down slide or May 1941 on the manufacturing jobs up take. It is better than loosing jobs but no great shakes.

  118. the fact the media is talking about Jeb Bush as a vp candidate — it might win they Fla but the rest of the country would take one look at the name Bush especially one that made a butt load of money off of selling bad paper to the Fla pension programs and start plastering Obama posters every where

    Mittens said the candidate for vp has to be qualified to be president….I’d like him to spell out the qualifications now and then we will use them to measure all his potential choices. He seems to feel there is an objective list. Can’t wait to hear what he thinks that…..Marco Rubio has NO executive experience. And I would like to point out has never held any other job except a political one. Isn’t he what Mittens rails against?

  119. Jace

    We manufacture more stuff now than we ever did.

    And we have lead all the world except China in the rate of growth in manufacturing. Which is remarkable for a mature economy.
    Check out the charts in this piece.


  120. KGC,

    Portman and Daniels are always mentioned, please let it be one of them they got some ‘splaining to do.

  121. What is costing manufacturing jobs isn’t nafta but the natural progression of mechanisation in manufacturing. To understand the future in manufacturing look at Agriculture in the last century. More and more production with fewer and fewer people. It is the future nafta or no nafta. Nafta is a leftist boogyman used to distract from real facts.

    Fact one , if you work in manufacturing and you aren’t upgrading you skills and education then you will soon find you have no job.


  122. Jace,

    It’s called “productivity.” Get the same number of people to make more things either with automation or threats about losing their job.

  123. PIT

    In the end nobody works faster than a machine, If there is a machine that can do your job then your job is gone.
    All that will be left are jobs that are too delicate or complicated for a machine. Like picking strawberries.

  124. Well I find it quite strange how everyone feels about President Obama after not even 4 years. To think that so many people are upset that he didn’t fulfill or meet everyone’s expectations of him in that time is simply amazing.

    So lets see how the last 28 years before Obama became President with our country and economy left in shambles.

    Reagan = 8 years
    Bush 1 = 4 years
    Clinton = 8 years
    Bush 2 = 8 years
    Total = 28 years

    So after the last four Presidents (3 Republican for 20 years and 1 Democrat for 8 years) left our country ruined it looks like you all thought that he was what Rush Limpballs called Barak the Magic Negro surprises you that he is not a Magic Negro.

    More and more I’m beginning to think that this is not the country I was born in. How disappointing.

    Have a great evening, goodnight.

  125. I once worked for two weeks helping make Lee jeans. It was hard tedious work yet people did it until they broke down. Two things I remember 1. it didn’t pay worth anything and 2.I never met any worker there that wanted their kid to follow in their foot steps.
    It closed down, probably moved to China much the same way it left the East coast and came to Missouri 20 years before.


  126. I must have dropped my pom poms, oh that’s right I flunked the try outs. No cheer leading squad for you Jack.
    But I was so good!!


  127. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about his lordship or Champ, or what ever he calls himself. He once ask me for some advice on electricity and I gave it to him as best I could. Hope it didn’t cause him to burn his house down.


  128. LOL, As I ramble it has occurred to me that I’m talking to my self. Gotta have an intellegent conversation with someone.

    Lets see 2 more posts and Mr troll will be bitching at me as much as he does Bob and Tony. Before that happens maybe I had better just go to bed.

    Night all


  129. Jack,

    I agree that a machine is faster than a person. Machines cost money. Why buy a machine when you can get cheap labor. And why aren’t the machines make in the USA? Cheap labor. That is what Tariffs are for.

    I worked for a company in the 70s and 80s that produced TV picture tubes. The yoke and the electron gun were made in Mexico with 38 cents an hour labor. The only thing they had to do was beef up the quality control to catch the problems.

    Apple could replace the Foxconn factories in China with machines but it would not be cost effective. Almost slave labor rates are cheaper than buying machines. That is why Foxconn employs millions of people.

    The 3D printer does not make the product. It is the start of a die process to make the product. The fully functional wrench will have to to make of a much stronger material. But it is a start.

  130. Jack..we appreciate your stream of consciousness. As you guys get older..a good stream is harder to come by..if you get my drift.

  131. AP

    You forgot Jimmy Carter. Carter deregulated the airlines. Carter was a deregulation Democrat. That makes it 32 years.

    The middle class peaked in 1973 and have floundered ever since. When the recession ended in March 1975 the combination of Ford and Carter started the middle class decline.

    Reagan subscribed to the supply side, trickle-down, laissez-faire, balanced budgets, free trade, financial deregulation, “tax cuts increase government revenue” economic theory. This economic theory tells them anything that increases corporate profits is good for the economy and if government quits regulating and stays out of business, business will grow jobs. Thus ends of the middle class as we new it.

  132. Jack,
    Exactly because Bill Clinton is a fighter! Tough and knows his opposition..President Obama lets his opposition know he will fold before the negotiations ever begin..President Clinton used his office and personality to persuade. President Obama, well the lack of results speak for themselves..

    Thanks for the info on manufacturing jobs..Those jobs are near and dear to me as i spent over 24 years, since i was 18 working for GM..

  133. Obama Sees Steep Dropoff in Cash From Major Donors

    From Wall Street to Hollywood, from doctors and lawyers, the traditional big sources of campaign cash are not delivering for the Obama campaign as they did four years ago. The falloff has left his fund-raising totals running behind where they were at the same point in 2008 — though well ahead of Mr. Romney’s — and has induced growing concern among aides and supporters as they confront the prospect that Republicans and their “super PAC” allies will hold a substantial advantage this fall.

  134. Dear Fellow Democrats…

    We need to dump Barack Obama now…

    Hillary Clinton needs to be the Democratic nominee in 2012…

  135. I specifically stated that 50 percent of American households dont pay any Federal income tax
    Using the government own stats it was 49.5 percent in
    30 percent had a negative tax rate , using the earned income tax credit

    Now if that doesn’t match up with the lefts ideology
    And rhetoric , sorry

    Now if you bought a gallon of gas you can say you paid federal taxes ,
    I was talking about Federal income taxes

  136. But in this country we have one great privilege which they don’t have in other countries. When a thing gets to be absolutely unbearable the people can rise up and throw it off. That’s the finest asset we’ve got — the ballot box.
    – Mark Twain interview in Boston Transcript, 6 November 1905

  137. mqw

    “lies , damn lies and statistics”

    Your statistic is meaningless and a lie, setting all by itself.


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