Mitt Romney’s personal history as a Mormon leader has largely escaped scrutiny. Why? In Boston he was far more than a detached or occasional church goer, and how he handled his prominent role ought to be considered. Indeed, I would think that anyone so close to the presidency with such a past would see it examined in far more detail — simply because it tells us much about this man so many find a bit of a mystery.
Beginning at age 30 Romney served in powerful posts, as bishop and then as so-called stake president, overseeing about a dozen congregations with close to 4,000 members altogether. In their book, “The Real Romney,” Michael Kranish and Scott Helman write that “those positions in the church amounted to his biggest leadership test yet, exposing him to personal and institutional crises, human tragedies, immigrant cultures, social forces, and organizational challenges that he had never before encountered.”
Perhaps the most the controversial aspect of Romney’s tenure as a Mormon leader involved his choices in upholding traditional and backward church beliefs regarding women.
Michael Kranish and Scott Helman:
“You’re not my kind of Mormon,” Romney, then Boston stake president, reportedly told Judy Dushku, a member with whom he had clashed over the church’s treatment of women. Romney showed callousness toward Dushku when she came seeking his permission to enter a Mormon temple, which had formerly been off-limits to those, like Dushku, who were married to non-Mormons. “I’m coming to you as a member of the church, essentially expecting you to say, ‘I’m happy for you,’ ” Dushku recalls. “I just felt kicked in the stomach.”
The authors explore Romney’s conflicts with Mormon women and how he was forced to reconcile the demands of liberal women within his Boston stake against the conservative doctrines and practices of Mormonism.
“I needed him. It was very significant that he didn’t come,” says Peggie Hayes, who had asked Romney to confer a blessing on the out-of-wedlock baby he advised her to give up for adoption. “This is what the church wants you to do, and if you don’t, then you could be excommunicated for failing to follow the leadership of the church,” she recalls him saying.
Stories like those are worth hearing as the public tries to understand more about the man within striking distance of the White House.
The Romney camp has succeeded in spooking the news media and political foes away from such an exploration, deeming it bigoted to raise any questions about his religion. It should not be off limits.
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100 Responses to How Bishop Romney Failed Women
Now on The Trail
these are questions about leadership, not religion. and leadership is the theme of rmoney’s campaign.
If Romney were Methodist or Episcopalian, the story of his role in church leadership would be widely reported. Thank you, Craig, for talking about it. I agree that Romney’s church work is worthy of discussion, since he also says his religion informs his world view and policies.
his history and record as a church leader should be scrutinized just as much as his leaderships as a businessman and as a governor. did he follow the rules, apply them equitably, use them for positive outcomes rather than negative, and were there any conflicts of interest?
Washington DC has a growing Mormon population — the largest concentration of LDS east of the Mississippi.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/12/hfr-with-or-without-romney-d-c-a-surprising-mormon-stronghold/
Craig, thanks for making this point. Mormonism so clearly affects his thinking, including views on the status of women, that it’s amazing it has not been more of an issue. If President Obama were a Mormon, Karl Rove and company would be all over it. Notice he said something like “if you’re gonna have women in the work place . . . ” To him, it’s not a desirable situation.
“911. What is your emergency?”
“Help me! My house is on fire.”
“I’m sorry, but that is God’s intention.”
“Can’t you send over some emergency personnel?
“Yes, but they will prevent you from putting out the fire.”
“Can’t you make an exception? My kids are trapped on the third floor!”
“This is clearly that this is not a legitimate fire.”
“What does that mean?”
“If it’s a legitimate fire, the house has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”
breaking news: gen powell just endorsed pres obama on cbs morning show
nash -- You are en fuego!
Guess the question is whom do women have to fear most: a secret Muslim or a not-so-secret Mormon?
http://patdollard.com/2012/08/jon-huntsmans-ex-mormon-daughter-abby-tells-huffington-post-romney-under-secret-control-of-mormon-church/
diva -- With Romney’s stance on things, nobody would ever mistake him for a Methodist. (As a Methodist, myself, the thought makes me giggle.)
Sadly, everyone I know is voting for Romney, despite the fact that things are not only “not worse,” but they have some new perks from Obamacare, like coverage for their adult children. I think they are afraid that someone who doesn’t look like them might get a bit of a boost, too. They are in a group known as the cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face voting block.
How do you guys think that any storm damage/lengthy power outages from would impact the election?
Is “Sandy” a Dem or a GOoPer?
Diva, hopefully DC will not be adding the Rmoney clan to its LDS rolls.
blue, Sandy must be a ‘can’t. If she (he?) hits the NE, it will be the NY, CT, MA megalopolis -- which is pretty much completely Dem.
Craig… about time someone had the guts to write something like that. Damn right that if any Dem had been a leader in their church it would have been exploited by the gop.
pogo… Rick and I are already talking about what preparations we need to take for Sandy…. first on the list… buying some gasoline for our generator.
Nash,
Too funny.
If the fire was started by an arsonist you have let it burn completely. God’s will you know.
“Any reasonable analysis of the early voting numbers so far shows that the Democratic machine is crushing the Republicans’ Rube Goldberg contraption.” Jon Ralston on Nevada early voting.
I guess republicans don’t want to vote for Rmoney any sooner than they have to.
The republicons don’t give a rat’s behind about Rmoney’s religion. The Koch Brothers are going to kill off the bishop and we will be stuck with President Paul Ryan. That scares me as much as the Mormon Mafia.
NBC is stupid! Chuck Todd keeps saying that President Obama’s rally is in Pinellas County. Tampa and Ybor City are in Hillsborough County. Come on NBC get it correct for a change!
Campaign sweep brings President Obama to Ybor City
Chuck Toad — In the pictorial definition of sell-out they have Chuck Toad or Load as he is variously known
He is also the stand-in photo for Uriah Heep (The Dickens character not the band)
PiT…The network is geographically challenged. Andrea Mitchell put New Mexico next to Nevada in the last election cycle. I may be able to understand the county mix-up within a state, but they stare at the election map every day for months. They should be able to identify each state by shape, name and position.
So glad this is getting some attention! Can’t believe it’s been so off-limits for so many “reporters”…
Colbert’s Trump piece last night was golden. And Obama on Leno saying the conflict goes back to their days in Kenya ….. Priceless.
Mr. Romney has not joined the modern age. He wants the 1950s back!
Email from my nephew -
I guess we finally know Gordo’s true identity
patd: Thankes for that Gen. Powell item. His endorsement is a BIG deal with moderate voters.
Gulf Stream might be releasing seafloor methane
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/346009/description/Gulf_Stream_might_be_releasing_seafloor_methane
Mormonism and Evangelical Christianity share a common belief in a Dominionism where authority goes from God to man who then has authority over the world and women while women hold dominion over the home and children with the man’s guidance. The world is for his use and the women in subservience to the will of God and Man. Now the plus side of the ideal is that this dominion should be benevolent in its use with all being happy in their assigned rolls.
Of course they believe they are different from other dominion style cultures such as the Muslims simply because they are supposedly kinder and have learned that an educated woman can bring home a paycheck.
Okay you can all stop rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter. They are serious about this and have the intense desire to force others into their standards. I’ve lived in the middle of both communities and on the surface it can seem all very Life of Beaver and at its best all sweet and protective. Under the surface there can be a great deal of ignored suffering and inflicted pain on those who differ in their beliefs.
If Obama wins, it won’t be because of anything he did. Obama allowed the GOP to stall the economic recovery from a crash that THEY CAUSED. Did he criticize them for this? NO! The reason corporate profits and unemployment are both high is because the GOP gave Wall Street a free pass, kept their feet on the throats of workers, and Obama let them get away with it.
The GOP’s strategy was clear in early 2009: keep unemployment high by laying off government workers at the state level, block a second stimulus bill, and then blame Obama. It worked!
The economy is a mess today and Obama should be losing. But the GOP, captive of the extreme right wing, fielded a group of primary candidates that was so wretched that that an aloof, sociopathic vulture capitalist was the best they could do. Romney has made one stupid mistake after another.
Think about it. Given the poor economy, any of the first tier potential GOP presidential candidates (Jeb Bush, Chris Christie) would by beating Obama 55/45. The more intelligent members of the GOP realize this, but there’s not a damn thing they can do about it.
The trio campaigns in Mesilla
Rubio looks different in the New Mexico sunshine and
Mrs. Wilson is losing her Senate bid by 11 points.
Driving to the grocery store this morning, I spotted an unusual lawn sign amid signs for Democratic candidates. It looked exactly like the usual red white and blue signs that say Romney on top with Ryan underneath… except it said “Rmoney/ Lyan”….
I did a double take and came home the same way to make sure I’d really seen it… I did!
Here’s my choice for today’s CSM cartoon…
jaslf (10/24/2012 at 10:48 PM)
Aww Gosh! What was misstated about the Bible???
Religion is the result of the thought and practices of the culture and society that produced them. Religion then becomes a collection of beliefs, ideas, philosophies, mythologies, rituals, symbols, etc., that shape the cultures and civilizations.
Both Judaism and Christianity consider the Hebrew Bible to be part of their sacred scriptures. Islam believes that the Hebrew Bible is the writings of the prophets of God but that the Koran is the ultimate prophecy given by God.
One of the common threads from the fundamentalists of all three Religions is that women are subservient and the property of men. Remember that back 100,000 or a 1,000,000 years ago when the concepts of the Religion were being formed, Men were hunters and protectors, ugh strong, Women have babies and take care of children, ugh weak.
Compare that to the pagan religions of ancient Greece, Rome and Egypt’s concept of women. In the Ancient pagan religions the woman are “bad ass.”
Why are the two cultures so different in their attitude toward woman?
Jamie…the Crusades never ended. And what I loathe about the religious hypocrites is the systematic pedophilia over centuries. Male and female children victims of adults in most religions and especially in a minor religion, like Mormonism. It is pretty disgusting and a part of their culture.
Mr. 2.5,
Candidate jeb bush would have to wear his brother around his neck like a dead albatross. The failure to outlaw abortion, Tora Bora, chelabbi, Jesus in the night, Tarp, northKorea’s bomb, thousands of guns and tens of M!LL!ON$ missing in Iraq, the real estate slump, $4gas, and the stock market crash would sum it all up from Iowa to 8 pm on Nov. 6th. Either jeb would have to disown his bro or lose by 10 points. (Only 10, because Obama is still black.) That would be the election unless of course, he was willing to engineer his brother’s martyrdom. And perhaps, that was what you had in mind.
Either Candidate christ christie’s knees would give out if he had to stand for 90 minutes in a debate or the lard pile would have a coronary thrombosis and expire. That would fix both the rip ups in NJ and nationally.
The fact is, romney was as good as the rippers have, and there is no one coming up. The rippers appear to be where they were in ’36 : hopeless at the polls and seditious over their cigars and cognac.
Hey PIT
You KNEW there was a reason I love owls.
i think he’s just plain old garden variety evil. the evil crawls around on him like maggots on a crap-wagon.
Four years ago in Texas…LDS compound raided.
As silly as I find any religion centered around an anthropomorphic deity, I would surmise criticizing a specific one, in this case Romney’s Mormonism, would make one vulnerable to charges of bigotry, even if said religion features bigoted tenets. Funny how that works, I realize.
Zeus was a notorious rapist, as were many of the Gods, and Hades kept Persephone as a sex slave, so I’m not sure how liberal the ancient Greeks really were.
Richmond VA Crowds for Obama
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Ron Paul would have trounced Obama, with GOP party backing. I realize you’re not a fan, just saying.
Champ
Mixed bag. Many of the earliest religions worshiped the divine female and various societies were a melange of rights for women with such groups as the worship of Astarte or the Roman Vestal Virgins and full citizenship and inheritance rights for Roman women.. At least in the Pagan polytheistic world, you didn’t have highest church authority exercising life/death decisions without any female input.
sea, no you didn’t say anything wrong that i could see. yours seemed to be genuine questions of care, concern and compassion for a suffering fellow trailmate. i’m certain that a bag full of your delicious chocolate hearts or a box of raspberry flavored bonbons would help lift flatus’ spirits. perhaps sturge who cohabits the same state would be happy to deliver them in person and sit awhile to share his burden.
purple, your comment about pagan women being “bad ass” should be directed to our very own and very sweet expert on pagans, witches, chocolate spells and such.
sea, what say ye about purp’s claim?
Did the “Pagan polytheistic world” have a “highest church authority”? I’m not sure ancient savages are the best example of egalitarian society.
Champ
“Highest Church Authority” referred to Catholic church and it’s persistent elimination of any pagan influences.
As to “savages”, I don’t think Egypt, Greece, and Rome qualify, all of whom had powerful female deities. The celtic and druid traditions all had earth based, fertility gods and goddesses. Women’s survival took a major downturn when the “witches” were put out of business by the church.
You can hear the prejudices in the witches curse from the Scottish play
Iggy…I hope you never run into Medusa on an empty street. One tough goddess.
Many pedophiles among the early Greeks…it was all about the ‘youth’ with the Greeks.
You’re just trying to argue with me for the sake of it. The Catholic church adopted countless Pagan traditions, like Christmas trees, the winter solstice, Easter/fertility celebrations, yada yada.
xrep:
Jeb Bush or Christie could have had the nomination, but both of them decided in 2011 that 2016 was a better bet. Why go against an incumbent president when you can go against a mere nominee (Hillary)?
They regret it now, though. Running one of the WORST campaigns, with one of the worst candidates, the GOP almost won this. The momentum was there after the first debate.
I stand by my position: facing a credible candidate, Obama would be losing. Jeb and Christie are proud to be Republicans and could easily beat Obama who is ashamed to be a Democrat.
Well, Medusa was a gorgon…may not qualify for goddess status. Although she is the love child offspring of the gods.
Champ
Of course they did. You get to have a Christmas tree and we will rule every aspect of your life. If you don’t want to be a properly subservient female, head for a cloistered nunnery, but we’ll check up on you there as well.
EVERYONE is now assuming Obama is going to win. Probably he will, but then again…
I think most Democrats are in denial. They have not fully grasped just how BAD, BAD, BAD things are going to get if Romney wins. The GOP may not capture the Senate but Romney will control future nominations to the Supreme Court. Maybe for EIGHT YEARS.
One more conservative vote and we’ll be back in the 1920s. Two, and and slavery will be legal again.
How real women of the repug party think --
Shuck and Jive Shtick
we ought to get today’s post and comment thread trending. here is short link for sharing around the “internets”..
http://bit.ly/SzQgaj
as patd said so well, the point is “his history and record as a church leader should be scrutinized just as much as his leaderships as a businessman and as a governor.”
Craig…if you can read this, my password is working. We’re good to go…Mud
I think Romney et all are just trying to coast to the finish line. Problem is, either by expressing some wishy-washy “I wouldn’t say it that way” clarification, or by simply ignoring women’s issues (and there are such things: economy, particularly family economy, early childhood education, Lily Leadbetter, keep your hands outta my uterus, Planned parenthood, college grants, keeping yours kids on your insurance for longer periods, healthcare coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions, the list goes on and on), Romney, and by extension congressional and senatorial candidates have instead said, “well, you’re probably going to get laid off, and there won’t be any financial help out there for you if you do, and don’t whine about it because you’re part of the 47%.” “Oh, and don’t expect social security to be there because we’re going to gamble it all with Goldman Sachs traders, and forget medicare cos it costs too much.”
They really don’t have much to run on do they?
The Status of Women in Greek, Roman and Jewish Society
by Elisabeth M Tetlow
poohba, thanks for the compliment.
what patterns are there to be discovered by comparing records of his 3 leadership roles. these would be helpful in foretelling future use of power.
were there any ethical problems, did he abuse authority, did he profit inappropriately, did he ever compromise for the good of the whole?
Sandy -
There are 2 models that over the last 2 years have been very good at predicting tracks for Atlantic cyclones. The European model, and one of ours called the GFS . For the last few days the GFS has called for Sandy to curve out to sea. The European model has shown her re-curving west into Mass . Now the runs of the GFS are beginning to show the same solutions, with Maine and the Canadian Maritimes as landfall.
The European model shows Sandy hitting south New Jersey as a huge Cat 3 cyclone.
Buy telephone pole futures , and batteries .
The European model predicted Irene’s path the best. The sea surface temps where Sandy is going are 5F degrees above average for this time of year. The West side of the mountains will be in cold air , the East side will be rain . All of it will be in a huge wind field. The storm will come ashore, then it will freeze. Think about this if you live anywhere near this event, and buckle your chin strap.
Purple-in-Tampa: No…No. How women are treated in the early text (now called Hebrew bible) shows the Ancient Near East’s and Ancient Mediterranean Society’s cultures. They believe that women are subservient to men. Women do not have much clout in society. We do know that there were societies that had women with power such as in Germania (where they were equal to the point that they could stand side by side on the battlefield, a great honor) and a little among Celts (they could become Druids, holy aristocrats). you have it all wrong. Judaism was first all built after Christianity and both were built after Ancient Greek virtues. Islam was built off these virtues as well but it had a little more time in the Ancient Greek world because it was in the Byzantine Empire rather than the ‘Wild’ Western Empire. ‘God’s laws’ are nothing more than really old laws that are accepted by society in its culture. At the end of your first comment about Athena, you did a disservice to your point. Look again at what you wrote. How was Athena born? Did she come from a woman? NO, in Ancient Greek society, no great thoughts can come from a woman. She had to come from a man. Men were not only hunters. Women were not only gatherers. They did everything together. Women are not weak. You are thinking of ignorance about the genders within our own culture. About the article by Elisabeth M Telow, I have never read so much fucking horse shit in my life. This person is so god damn ignorant my head hurts as much as it does whenever I hear the Republicans go off. Ancient Egyptians DID NOT WORSHIP WOMEN AS EQUALS. Great proof of this is their Queen Nefertiti who is believed to have taken over after Akhenaten died. She had to change her name and pretend to be a man in order to get their society to accept her as ruler. Yet, what did they still do to her? They still blamed her and Tutankhamun for what her husband had done so they were banished from the afterlife (a most grave thing). Another evidence is the famous Hatshepsut whose most hated part of her reign was that she decided to not marry an Egyptian. All she did was irrelevant because her one choice was to marry an outsider. In Ancient Egyptian society, a woman even one who is the Pharaoh must do as she is told. As I implied before, Judaism cannot exist at early Rome because Christianity had not begun yet. The local religion in Judaea was trying to push back against what they saw as Hellenistic ideas. The problem with this is that the Ancient Greeks were so interwoven in their society for the last several hundred years that they would not know how to take them out. A lot of it was fruitless nonsense. I see no proof about women going up in Judaean society. Just conjecture as that is what she believes would happen. Judaean thought as was all thought around the Mediterranean was controlled by Ancient Greek, a product of Ancient Mediterranean culture, in its influences. I could go on and on and on regarding every part of this response but, I won’t.
A word about “Fracking” .
The Federal Government paid for the research to study “directional drilling” , and “hydraulic fracturing” for 3 decades.
Without that money , North Dakota would still be a vacant lot, not the new Iraq of North American.
Talk about “picking winners and losers”.
Runmoney has a thing for Putin . If he wins, it’s our plutocrats can beat their plutocrats.
Runmoney and the RNC raised 120 Million dollars in 2 weeks. Rome would be proud.
What is the history of the word : ‘plutocrats’, and why to they live in packs ?
When elephants fight, only the grass suffers.
Old African proverb
The Weather Channel is freakin’ out , the models are coming into line, and shifting West for the whole track.
This would be this year’s “October Surprise”. Climate Change is about to get it’s seat at the table.
The drought the last 2 years here didn’t bite the right people or in great enough numbers. One week from today tens of millions of people will have no power.
Sandy will make Katrina a walk in the park.
“The Perfect Storm” happened at the same time of year, except it was 200 miles off shore. This is coming in South of New York City. On a King Tide.
There are studies about this very thing . If enough sea water enters the NYC subway system , all of the NYC infrastructure will be ‘junk’ .
Sea water eats electrical systems. That’s the power grid as well.
The silver lining in all this , ……. Donald Trump’s head will explode 3 weeks from now.
Because the Wall Street is 3 feet above sea level.
Vote early folks on the east coast and make sure you have five days of emergency supplies
Here at Casa Cracker we are totally unprepared for anything — we do have at least a week’s supply of beans and alcohol and pot and water and since we have propane we have fuel.
Every time a denier mocks the theory, it slaps us ever harder in the face . Runmoney mocked the rise of the oceans . Wall Street gets to test that theory next week.
Becky Quick and “Morning Joe” better be making plans.
I saw a photo of Bishop Rmoney’s indoor rally in Ohio not a lot of people there..although my brother in Canton says the race is tied and he has heard the early voting is favoring Rmoney gak
Dear Ms Cracker -
You are a girl after my heart. I have beans and fire wood, and 260 gallons of rain water.
CBob
How’s that solar oven doing?
CBob… Rick and I are fully prepared. After the ice storm of 2008, anyone around here not prepared is a moron.
My biggest fear back then was for my parents…. they are no longer a concern. Rick and I can take care of ourselves… and are prepared to help neighbors.
RR -
Sandy is going to be the worst case . We will see the lowest pressure ever seen this far North. And that means wind. What is freaking-out the weather nerds , there is no record of these storms turning left into land like Sandy.
Your ice storm was a blessing in sheep’s blue jeans. The cold front got here today, we were like Miami all of October. 89F degrees yesterday, 24F degrees tomorrow night.
As I said, the storm will hit and then it will freeze.
I know a few little guys who crawled thru the caves in viet nam trying to kill the locals.
Hurricane? my ass.
yes if kgc had been in my time zone and my sphere of influence I would certainly have made a serious play to win her heart with song.
not me, of course….I don’t do caves. and I definitely did not do viet nam like several of our mixers did. I was what’s known as a draft dodger. I got great respect for the sojers but, naw, that shit wasn’t happ’nin. Not in 68.
To my friends in the East ………
Store drinking water
Store food you don’t have to heat.
Store fire wood, and a stove to burn it.
Contact your neighbors. Pool you efforts.
Sturg -
Me too.
Bottom line ……..
My nephew will never be the same.
i thought Ali was right. I just didn’t have a religion to give me an excuse so I had to fall back on getting into the Coast Guard. Next step would have been: Sturgeone: Canadian.
Fuck every goddam one of those bastard schmucks who think it’s some kind of necessary to send young men to get shot full of holes and die in the mud for their stupid shit while their own children play on the swingset. Fuck ‘em. I just want you to know I can see thru their masks.
I was lucky….in 65 my buddy had an older brudder who made it back in one piece and since he didn’t have nobody to hang out with (all his age group was at work or at school) it was me and he told me all about it…..it was fresh. I got hip. quick.
Sturg
Don’t give me any bs. You were a Coastie doing SAR off our East coast. You so good.
we drank burger beer and smoked tiparillos down at the corner and I felt pretty swell.
Sturg -
In 1967 I got out of Texas, if I had been a fool . My nephew would be walking on my bones.
I was a coastie and proud of it and felt a part of something bigger than me and I’m still proud of it but no way would them bastards have sent me to shoot people in a jungle. no fuckin’ way.
I got nothin’ against no yellow man.
--Muhammad Ali
On the Judaic side while patriarchal still gave a great deal of power and freedom to women since the woman of valor engages in trade, commerce, management and education.
A woman of valor, who can find? Far beyond pearls is her value.
Her husband’s heart trusts in her and he shall lack no fortune.
She repays his good, but never his harm, all the days of her life.
She seeks out wool and linen, and her hands work willingly,
She is like a merchant’s ships; from afar she brings her sustenance.
She rises while it is still nighttime, and gives food to her household and a ration to her maids.
She considers a field and buys it; from the fruit of her handiwork she plants a vineyard.
She girds her loins with might and strengthens her arms.
She senses that her enterprise is good, so her lamp is not extinguished at night.
She puts her hand to the distaff, and her palms support the spindle.
She spreads out her palm to the poor and extends her hands to the destitute.
She fears not snow for her household, for her entire household is clothed with scarlet wool.
Bedspreads she makes herself; linen and purple wool are her clothing.
Well-known at the gates is her husband as he sits with the elders of the land.
Garments she makes and sells, and she delivers a belt to the peddler.
Strength and splendor are her clothing, and smilingly she awaits her last day.
She opens her mouth with Wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
She anticipates the needs of her household, and the bread of idleness, she does not eat.
Her children rise and celebrate her; and her husband, he praises her:
“Many daughters have attained valor, but you have surpassed them all.”
False is grace, and vain is beauty; a God-fearing woman, she should be praised.
Give her the fruit of her hands, and she will be praised at the gates by her very own deeds.
Sturg -
This why we don’t teach history to our young .
when I grew up in the south the black people had to drink from separate water fountains and use separate bathrooms in the filling stations. I wasn’t blind. they didn’t mind when the black people were sent to die in the jungle. they didn’t mind a bit. and this all after they’d put a bullet in my president’s brain. no. great big no. they can’t have it both ways. not with me, anyway.
but I’m kind of chagrined that I never stepped up and hollered about it.
so, what the hell, eh?
My country right or wrong died a slow death but it died, nonetheless.
Back to Sandy -
Follow Dr. Masters blog at Weather Underground.
A very clear eyed , sober fellow.
they say that hurricane will miss sc and will not even dump any water on the leaky roof of my old shop.
Hey bob….guess what….I taught my young an ass-load of history….and she got to be way hipper than me…..lol
The people in my hooch had no respect for Clay because we didn’t think he was avoiding the draft as a matter of conviction. We opined that he was using his celebrity, coupled with some really silly reasons such as I’m not smart enough to serve, to evade service.
We cheered every time the government won one against him. This was in the early sixties.
He didn’t become a ‘folk hero’ until Vietnam emerged which was sometime later. At the time, the fear was getting one’s ass blown up in the Fulda Gap.
Back to Sandy -
Sandy is going track over the Gulf Stream for hours . The wind shear aloft should tear it to pieces. But it won’t.
flate…I can dig it….he meant a lot to me, though.
Flatus --
Everyone who ever came here loves you. Why ? Because you earned a deep wisdom. And most of us know we missed our chance at what deep wisdom means.
si.
NEW THREAD
Flatus -
You are part of a very bright line, that this cracker barrel tracks. I wish you had been here the day 9/11 showed -- up.
Your joy would have matched mine.
Flatus -
Several 100 people, who you will never meet , love you deeply.