Where Our Debt Came From

As we gear up for another round of high drama in Washington over curbing federal debt, here’s a quick guide to how we got here.

Where Our Current Debt Came From

  • Recessions (lower federal revenue): 26%
  • Bush Tax Cuts: 20%
  • Bush Increased spending (2 wars): 40%
  • Obama Stimulus Program: 6%
  • Other Obama Spending: 8%

Center for American Progress
– See the data: Congressional Budget Office

125 thoughts on “Where Our Debt Came From

  1. God I hate being up to WOO HOO this thread. So according to CBO & CAP Shrub owns 60% of the debt NOT COUNTING HIS RECESSION? 86% when it’s included? And Obama owns 14%? Damn big spending Obama.

  2. Tea Party’s Governor Rick Scott, with an approval rating below 40%, Secretary of State Ken Detzner is a former beer industry lobbyist. Now that is what I call qualified? The almost 14 consecutive years of Republican administrations and almost 18 consecutive years of Republican legislatures have made Florida the poster child of electoral embarrassment.

    Gov. Rick Scott defends Florida election as his chief says, ‘We could have done better’
    By Steve Bousquet, Tampa Bay Times, November 10, 2012

    TALLAHASSEE — As his top elections official conceded that the state bears responsibility for long lines and late vote counts that have made Florida a target of national ridicule, Gov. Rick Scott on Friday defended the state’s handling of the election.

    “We could have done better. We will do better,” Secretary of State Ken Detzner said on CNN during pointed questioning from anchor Ashleigh Banfield.

    But in an exclusive interview with the Times/Herald, Scott made no apologies for the problems that led to an incomplete final vote count Friday, three days after the election.

    “What I’m trying to do is improve the way government works,” Scott said. “I believe in efficiency. I believe every vote has to count. I want to have a good process that people feel good about.”

  3. I have been wondering about this for sometime but never hear anything about it. Since the war in Iraq has ended nearly 1 year ago, when will those war benefits be seen?
    The answer or as close to anyone’s guess can be found here, http://bitly.com/yxkNKw . But this only Iraq, Afghanistan is another unknown quanitity.

  4. Pogo,

    Keep in mind that these numbers come from the Center for American Progress, a left leaning organization very much like Nate Silver’s 538.
    Therefore republicans don’t have to believe these numbers. The debt is all Obama’s fault, and Romney still wins. ;-)

  5. Recession 26 percent, tax cuts 20 percent.

    46 percent of current debt is somehow related to decreased revenue to the treasury.

    Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, “we don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem”.

    Oh well, arithmetic never was their strongest subject.

  6. Craig,

    Thanks much for posting these numbers. I had been under the impression that the debt was far too large to manage.
    After looking at these numbers the solution is really very simple. All we need to do is cut taxes, increase spending on defense, and gut social security, and medi-care.
    I guess I was worried for no good reason.

  7. Just call me Moneypenny. Today I’ll be hanging out with Mr. Bond. That’s about all the economics I’m up to on a Saturday.

  8. Business “Debt” vs Government “Debt”

    Government accounting is very different from business accounting which creates a problem.

    In business, short-term debt (which is arises from current spending on operating expenses) and long term debt (which arises from long-term investment in facilities and equipment) are listed separately. In government accounting no distinction is made debt arising from spending to pay salaries of federal workers, and debt arising from building or repairing an interstate highway.

    The USA has tens of TRILLIONS of dollars of invested capital in productive assets ( “infrastructure”) like roads, bridges, hydroelectric dams, harbors, airports, public buildings, national parks, etc. If we “sold” all of these productive assets, we could repay the “national debt” several times over.

    Look at the balance sheet of any major corporation and you will see tens of billions of dollars in “long-term debt” which represents the value of all their facilities and equipment. No one suggests that corporations should “pay off their debt” by selling those assets. I they did, they’d be out of business.

    If the government accounting system separated debts arising from current spending on expenses and long-term debts for “infrastructure” we could have a more informed debate about this topic.

  9. I started my day with such a genuine (and long) LOL this morning, thanks to you and Sturge, Champ. The beauty of it is that the real humor lies in the fact that you are both so right.

    Sturge says:

    “you wanna buy american clothes go to the goodwill. yeah, they’re still made in china, but they’re being sold by americans for next to nothing.”

    …. now I realize I’ve been shopping at the wrong places.

    Champ says:
    “Try to make a pair of jeans, and you won’t think $40 for a pair is a high price.”

    I hate sewing and will not complain about the $40 for those Levi’s anymore (or the fact that they were made in China). The sad part is, they are starting to look like knock offs. No quality control anymore, or maybe they really are knock offs.

    (what struck me as extremely funny is the vision of you (or anyone else) sitting there trying to sew a pair of Levis… funny because I hate sewing.

    You guys put things into perspective for me.

  10. You could make a similar video about the debt arising from Reagan’s presidency. He did the same thing.

    Most of the new debt arising from excessive short-term spending over the last 30 years comes from Republican Presidents, but somehow the GOP has managed to sell the idea that the Democrats are the “irresponsible spenders.”

  11. Just for the Hell of it, I just checked some prices at Bill’s Khakis.

    Jeans-125
    Twills-125

    I would love to buy American Made, but that’s a bit beyond my pocketbook. Unless of course I get a tax break. ;-)

  12. Nemo

    Still looking for reasonably priced clothes made in America, try Good Will stores or the numerous consignment shops. You should be looking for pants or suits as shirts an sweaters since those if of the same age will be, shall we say, on the thin side.

  13. Just a side note.

    It is really nice to see Senator Warren’s picture and thank you, at the top of the page. Her win was a real election night bonus. ;-)

  14. Why wasn’t that data, on where the debt came from, plastered all over the TV for the last year? I’ve been curious.

  15. I believe the data was available but when Obamarama would point that out — the goops would say --you’re the president now you can’t keep blaming George Bush-

    and because of the media’s selfish self-interest they didn’t want to cover it either --would put too much of a damper on goopers chances.

  16. Someone needs to tell CNN’s Christine Roman-Hruska that she is too stupid to repeat talking points that she may be asked to explain -

    Her reports are frequently factually incorrect, especially when she talks about the Affordable Care Act
    I wouldn’t take financial advice from her under any circumstances she doesn’t have a clue.

    They need to bring back Ali Belshi from the storms -- he at least can distinguish between his own opinions and facts

  17. Bethy -
    We just turned on our heater this Thursday --
    We use propane and often are so bundled up we look like the Michelin men. Although last year we did join a buying group that serves our area and cut our bill in half. We live so far out and along the river — we are never getting natural gas pipelines — we just live with a bomb ten feet away.

    I haven’t seen frost but some our plants look like they’ve been bitten

  18. Lizz Winstead ‏@lizzwinstead

    RT @jeremyscahill: Someone should interview that Petraeus biographer about all of this. Bet she’d have some insights.

  19. CNN did call her before ‘they knew’ plus she apparently is talking head so lots of footage of her including a piece on Daily Show with her hubby

  20. Speaking of the Afforable Care Act, I found this government PDF file, http://bitly.com/yxkNKw ,which is the first I’ve come across which spells out the cost per individual/family those making approx. $89,600. What I am still confused about is the area titled “Preiums Person/Family Pays” on page 11. Speaking only for myself that appears to be one massive increase from what I’m paying now. Wonder how this will affect federal government workers as it doesn’t matter what you make, everyone pays the same Preiums. A friend of mine who is a GS 15 pays the same as his secretary GS 9. If I’m not mistaken this is the same health care Congress has.

  21. Jamie: Great link. This is a fascinating story and it’s a lot more fun than talking about the debt.

    Dark conspiracy theories are brewing on Fox News and the rightwing talk radio crowd. And the “mistress” is from Harvard! Boy, do the wingnuts hate that place, which they see a bastion of liberalism.

    Liberals see it as establishment insitution dedigned to perpetuate the upper class, so EVERYONE hates Harvard.

  22. New York Post ‏@new_york_post

    News: No bail for accused ‘cannibal cop’: Alleged “cannibal cop” Gilberto Valle will have to stew behind bars a … http://bit.ly/WOfYyv

    Takes “To Protect and Serve” to a new height.

  23. Movingon: The best way to get a question answered about a new law is to call your representative in the US House. They should have a local office that does “constiturent services.”

    They will either get the answer for you or, for more comlicated matters, tell you who you can call to talk to.

  24. Dear Karl,

    I am writing, not to express my sympathy, for I have none, but at least to suggest a certain empathy with your current plight.

    Like many Americans over the past few years, you are now faced with the unenviable task of trying to turn chicken shit into chicken dumplings. Many of us know firsthand just how difficult that can be. Unlike you however, we did not have countless millions of dollars of other peoples money to attempt said transformation. Take heart, it will be easier for you than it has been for them.

    I can only imagine how difficult it must be to go from being a political prince, to a political pariah in the space of about twelve minutes. This would be hard for most any one but all the more so for one who is a legend in his own mind. That must really suck.

    I should if I were you, not lose heart altogether.Often times opportunity arises out of the ashes, and such may be the case for you.

    Surely there are places where elections can still be influenced through direct mailings and grease boards.
    Botswana comes immediately to mind.

    In the meantime don’t gorge on the dumplings, save some room for the crow.

    Warmest personal regards,

    jace

  25. Rove’s organ grinding was off-key and boring without his having a monkey to go out into the crowd in a little uniform.

    or: Without a monkey to distract the crowd everyone noticed how shitty his organ sounded.

  26. lee atwater is said to have repented of his actions when faced with the reaper…it would seem that rove would have taken all that into consideration, but i guess when you’re riding the wave and everything’s coming up roses it all looks good.
    Now it seems he might develop into Political-Kiss-of-Death Rove.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. Turd Blossom.

  27. Ignoble…i seem to remember your liking the ones where the record is spinning. para ti. a real beaut of a tuna, even tho recorded at so sloooooow a tempo. but what is you gonna do?

  28. News from the Vatican

    The Pope is shelling out money to promote the Latin language.

    If even the Romans abandoned it for a newer model it must be a dud language as well as a dead one.

    Why not spend money to bring back garam, too ?

  29. My father died suddenly; I never had a chance to say “goodbye”.

    A few years later, when my uncle (his brother) was on his deathbed, in hospice, my turn came to have a private audience with him, before he was to be put on morphine to ease his inevitable transition. I looked into his face, not unlike mine, but more sallow from his long struggle, and asked:

    “Is there anything you’ve learned in your life that you can share with me, to help me with mine?”

    He just stared at me, silently, and with contempt.

    I gave him a kiss on the forehead, told him I loved him, and left.

  30. Saw Maher. Yep, the 2 x 4 up the side of the head is usually related to getting a mule’s attention but was certainly apropos in the reference. Poor S.E., she’s just too smart to even try spieling talking points, so she just looked sad.

  31. Saw Skyfall. Well worth the trip. Bond is back, and the new Q is fun. $11.75 for a medium popcorn and a small water was obscene.

  32. Jamie -- S.E. surprised me and was sounding somewhat sane, gods help me, for the first twenty-seven minutes. Then she went back to bat shit crazy. In Overtime, she had some arguable points. Obama’s foreign policy has had a lot of problems with it especially when it comes to drone attacks. But she was completely wrong about Libya.

  33. Champ,

    I am so sorry to hear that you never got a chance to say goodbye to your father. I remember you mentioning him in the last couple of days … something that you’d learned from your dad about being nice to people.

    Your post makes me so sad. I’m sad about your father and I’m sad about the story you shared with us about your uncles death. What makes me most sad is that you perceived that look on his face as a look of contempt. What a horrible way to remember that last visit.

    I say ‘perceived’, because I think when people are that close to death, their true feelings aren’t showing on their face. What a wonderful nephew you must have been to him, and I wish you could forget that last look, because it sounds like you took it personally. I just know you misread what he was thinking. Your story is so touching, and my heart goes out to you. It takes a lot of courage to say the things you said, and may we all learn something from them.
    Love ya, Chloe

  34. Shit shit shit. Bama lost on an interception from the 2 with less than 2 minutes left. Shit shit shit.

    Lol @ Latin. I took it in HS and like to think it formed the basis of my BA in English. Of course a BS would havebeen more appropriate. Would you like fries with that?

  35. Pogo, I did a BA with a major in Finance. I couldn’t imagine being fully educated without a concentration in the arts. My MBA was finishing school.

    I didn’t do Latin, but I did spend a lot of years, including elementary age, with French.

  36. Flatus, French was my college language, which I speak a little more than I did Latin. Damned little at that. At least I can figure out what’s on a French menu and point and ask where the restroom is. Funny thing, when I’ve been to Latin America I always hear Spanish.

    You rounded out a useful course of study with the arts. I rounded out an interesting and fun one with … professional degrees in grad and law school. You got the better benefit of the bargain. I’ll be working into my late 60s to get the kid through college. I’m one of those folks who never learned anything early in life. But have loved most of it.

  37. I had fun with languages….took a semester each of german and latin; two semesters of french, and 5 semesters of spanish plus two yrs of high school spanish.

    added to a couple of semesters of history of english…

  38. I still regret not having done a research degree. But, knowing me, it would have been in something unrelated to anything I had done before. Maybe public health, or municipal government--something of social value.

    When I speak Spanish, it’s with a French accent, and when I speak French, it’s, as Monsieur Lorz said, with a Lake Erie accent.

    I’ve gotten so I can do Korean with a couple of regional flavors. People are pleased when I try conversing with them.

  39. Sturg, did you have any problems keeping syntax and vocabulary sorted out?

    History of English is interesting. I only have one anecdote that I can share and it’s my Mom’s maiden name. Her ancestors were amongst the invaders from Normandy. And evidently old Frenchy was known as Scuto amoris divini which eventually became Skidmore.

    And, now, I’m off to bed.

  40. jamie, with florida counted and final ec is 332 (?), you should be congratulated on your near perfect ec call of 335 (?).

  41. those (?)s above are because i don’t have the patience to check that final number or to go back thru the threads to check jamies. just remember that they’re both only a few numbers apart.
    well done, jamie, our tm seer.

  42. Just trying out the keyboard for the Ipad. Interesting, but it apparently disables the auto correct feature that cuts down on my use of the edit feature.

  43. Just read the 538 blog shootout on the polls. Wanna guess which polls did the worst? yup, Rasmussen and gallup were among ‘em? Gallup gets the prize for worst. Of the relatively frequent polls, Ipsos did best. I remember when Gallup was considered the gold standard. Back in the days of Cronkite and the rotary dial phone. Ah, well, memories.

  44. With the almost official Florida win, after only four (4) days, President Obama was victorious in eight of the nine swing states, losing only North Carolina. So much for the polls, President Obama won Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Virginia and Wisconsin.

    Now if the wingnut Tea Party occult leader Allen West would just concede to Democratic Patrick Murphy and disappear into the Florida sunset and go to Alabama or Mississippi to live.

    Obama wins Fla., topping Romney in final tally
    By Tamara Lush, Associated Press, November 10, 2012 1:34 PM EST

    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — President Barack Obama was declared the winner of Florida’s 29 electoral votes Saturday, ending a four-day count with a razor-thin margin that narrowly avoided an automatic recount that would have brought back memories of 2000.

    No matter the outcome, Obama had already clinched re-election and now has 332 electoral votes to Romney’s 206.

    The Florida Secretary of State’s Office said that with almost 100 percent of the vote counted, Obama led Republican challenger Mitt Romney 50 percent to 49.1 percent, a difference of about 74,000 votes. That was over the half-percent margin where a computer recount would have been automatically ordered unless Romney had waived it.

  45. flatus, is your “absolute scumbag” judgment on the ret’d gen strictly based on moral or military standards and was it weighed by personal, official records, eyewitness or hearsay evidence?
    got the impression he is not of or near the same calibre as colin.

  46. I’ve been looking at right wing websites.

    The GOP is going INSANE.

    Half of them are pointing fingers, trying to assign blame: it’s the social conservatives who cost them the election; no, it’s the Tea Party; no it’s the “establishment” Republicans.

    The other half of the GOP thinks that THEY DID NOTHING WRONG. The logic gets a bit twisted after that. Somehow they did nothing wrong and still lost. So it was: the hurricane, stupid voters, voter fraud, voter suppression (I love that one), the liberal media, or some sort of dark conspiracy.

    I’ve got a simple strategy for the GOP to become the dominant political party. I don’t know why anyone hasn’t proposed it. Maybe I’ll post it in the “comments” section at Redstate.com.

    Just repeal the 19th amendment. (That’s the one that allowed women to vote.)

  47. Sunday Serendipity.

    To our TM veterans and to veterans everywhere.
    Job well done! Thank you.

  48. Nash,

    Jon Huntsman will be on state of the union this AM.
    Perhaps the only guest on any Sunday show that will be worth hearing.
    Thinking that he isn’t buying any of the republican excuses.

  49. I saw a bit of the State of Union and I guess the unasked question was --who is going to leave the party and who is going to retain control of the brand
    Gary Bauer what a sourpuss and really a person who wants to tell other people how to live their lives — he has no respect for the right to privacy or the separation of church and state the man thinks Todd Akin was right and Murdoch is a hero.

    Also Candy…the tax revolution may have started in California — but there was only one battle and it left a gianormous mess still being sorted out

    I believe the correct approach in tax issues is to allow tax abatement on an individual basis where the tax is unfair -not that hard to establish criteria

  50. My guess is -- if the goopers can shed themselves of the religiosity idiots they could make themselves look very appealing. I think it is amazing in a country founded on the principle of separation of church and state -- these clowns want to impose their religious values on people who do not share them. But hey if they want to keep going on down that road…..

    Why doesn’t Gary Bauer form the ChurchandState party

  51. from yesterday “Today is the U.S. Marine Corps birthday. Semper Fi.”

    A belated birthday to the U.S. Marines!

    … from Wiki: “Semper Fidelis is Latin for “Always Faithful” or “Always Loyal””. I was just thinking that there is a difference in the two imo (loyalty and faithfulness).

    I guess General Petraeus understands that well now. I’m sorry for both their families, as well as for him too. He led such a good life and for a very long time did a commendable job serving our country throughout most of his adultohood, and now is being dragged through the mud.

    When I was 16, I met my first great love at Disneyland (of all places) — the place was swarming with Marines. At that age I didn’t understand ‘loyalty or even faithfulness’. So once he shipped out, I moved on and was dense enough to have sent him a ‘Dear John’ while he was serving in Vietnam (never have forgiven myself for that one).

    Speaking of moving on, I realize I’ve been misspelling your name. For some reason I’ve been calling you movington. Now I see that your moniker is ‘moving on’ and think that is such a great choice. It say’s so much about you.

    6 lingering questions about the exit of Gen. David Petraeus

  52. Happy Veterans Day…
    I believe a number of Trail Mixers are in the category

    Flatus, Sturg, Chef Sheila, Dexter and those I’m missing Thank you for your service

    And if movingon is Fry Daddy you too.

  53. As she pursued her PhD in public policy in 2008, she contacted him to ask if she could interview him and they kept in touch via email.
    ‘A few months into my research, General Petraeus, who was then leading Central Command, invited me to go for a run with him and his team along the Potomac River during one of his visits to Washington,’ she wrote. ‘I figured I could interview him while we ran.’
    She explained that, after earning varsity letters in cross-country and indoor and outdoor track, she wanted to test him to see if he could keep up with her as she interviewed him.
    ‘Instead it became a test for me,’ she said. ‘As we talked during the run from the Pentagon to the Washington Monument and back, Petraeus progressively increased the pace until the talk turned to heavy breathing and we reached a six-minute-per-mile pace. It was a signature Petraeus move.’

    above from dailymail online article on the lady. more info, photos and interview video for those interested

  54. my most grateful thanks too to our vets on the trail. thanks also and concern especially to all the wounded veterans and to those future vets who will soon, hopefully, be coming home.

  55. Movingon,
    Are you Fry Daddy?!

    If so, then that explains why I had an instant connection with your posts.

  56. A great big THANK YOU to all veterans. I hope you all enjoy the day.

    Nash… I’ve looked at a few right wing sites also… they are going so crazy it’s beginning to scare me.

    Jaslf… I occasionally watch “The Cycle” where S.E.Cupp hosts with 3 other liberals. Sometimes she’s as batshitcrazy as the rest of the right wing… and sometimes she’s not. But she does know how to hold her own. It was fun watching how cantankerous the whole panel got on Bill Maher the other night.

  57. Thank you, Veterans, for your defense of the United States of America, of which I am a citizen, and for your defense of the freedoms I enjoy, as a result.

    Don’t be sad for me, Chloe; it’s a beautiful day where I am. Thanks again for your kind words. In consideration of Horsedooty’s admonition to me, way back when, I will refrain from serving my ‘inner horseradish’ here, henceforth, although truth be told, horseradish is delicious! Thank you to the host for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit about myself.

    I, as did Jamie, saw the new “James Bond” cinematic presentation, Metro Goldwyn Mayer’s (dramatic emphasis) “Skyfall”, featuring Daniel Craig in the role of the iconic Scottish (as it turns out) superspy, and featuring a bravura performance (oh, yes, I did just employ the word “bravura” in a sentence) by Javier Bardem. From my perspective, it’s the best Bond movie since “Goldfinger”, and head and shoulders above any popcorn flick I’ve seen in a while. If my endorsement isn’t enough, I would venture it’s going to make a fortune at the box-office.

    Oh, and the GOP lost the election because they didn’t nominate Ron Paul.

    Have a good day.

  58. rene: Don’t worry about the crazy, and sometimes violent rhetoric on the right wing websites. It’s just rhetoric.
    They love to think they can “scare” people.

    I’ve met quite a few crazy politcal fanatics on the right and the left and, without exception, they are “all talk and no action.”

    Really tough people, cops and the military, for example, usually avoid extreme rhetoric. If you are actually capable of violence, you tend to be more reserved.

    Like Gary Cooper in “High Noon.”

  59. IxC,

    r.p. would have lost, too. His candidacy would split rip up lican support. The neo-conmunists would leave the party. Their devotion to dict nixon/oliver north/bush crime family style politics would prevent them from ever supporting a coolidge isolationist. The pro-Armaggedon Christian wingnitz would probably disappear along with the neo-conmen.

    r.p. would retain the Wall Streeters and Big Fat Oilmen, because anarchism is a tenet of their Mammonist religion. r.p.’s only rock-solid supporters are the party anarchists.

  60. “If you are actually capable of violence, you tend to be more reserved.” -- Mr. 2.5 @ 1:31pm

    I guess we’ve all read or heard this a hundred times:

    “He was real quiet -- we hardly knew he was there. Kept to himself a lot. We’re stunned that he killed all these people.”

  61. The rippers in the batshitcrazy rightwing blogs just hope they can incite the quiet dudes who only lurk and collect ammo.

  62. Champ,

    Bardem didn’t just chew the scenery he took home a doggie bag of the carpet and curtains. Talk about having way too much fun with a role. :)

  63. Bardem didn’t just chew the scenery…

    Heh. I enjoyed watching the audience squirm at the entendre of a certain variety, without giving too much away. The guy is talented, though, we can agree on that.

    r.p. would have lost, too. His candidacy would split rip up lican support.

    Eh… c’est possible. Lest it be forgotten: we’re talking about the same crowd that swore they’d never vote for a Mormon. I’d surmise they’d fall in line like the good soldiers I imagine they perceive themselves to be. It’s all speculative, of course.

    Enough out of me. As you were.

  64. Oh, one more thing, I suppose, for those who don’t read the chat, Mr. Crawford posted this there:

    ” For anyone nearby Orlando Wed Nov 14 I’ll be speaking and signing books: League of Women voters lunch — ticket info.. http://bit.ly/TpkvS5

  65. Yes, all you who saw fit to serve to preserve our freedoms deserve our sincerest gratitude.

  66. I’d like to know what Florida did with its share of the money.

    After the 2000 debacle there was supposed to be reform of the American voting system. I think it’s true in other places but two of the biggest offenders are Ohio and Florida there needs to be an accounting of why after a reform process and funding we are still seeing the same crap play out in these states especially in the same areas that caused the problems in the first place.

    I guess they are operating on the same thinking as John King — it isn’t population that counts but county lines and all counties should be treated equally

  67. moses holed up in the mountains because he knew it would be futile to attempt an invasion of Canaan with a bunch of ex-slaves. So Joshua built and trained an army from the children. When it was done they went down and shrewdly and mercilessly took the land of Canaan, a city at a time with no survivors. One shrewd city negotiated the opportunity of being allowed to continue as they were. I think joshua always considered that he got snookered on that one, but the rest were all put to the sword and moses’ people had a nice place to hang out….the promised land.

  68. it took some real battle smarts for josh to take the first objective: Jericho. They did the annoying shofur blowing march around the walls for a couple of weeks or three while the tunnellers sapped the great walls at a point at which a city whore, Rahab, had pointed out to Josh’s two spies would be found the weakest point of the ancient city’s impregnable walls Especially impervious to a bunch of goat bloaters from the mountains.

    At the big shofur blowing climax of this early edition of the ed sullivan show the boys in the tunnel pulled the plug and the walls come a’tumblin’ down.

    And that’s what happened when Joshua fit the battle of Jericho.

  69. Rahab and all her extended family were directed to hide out in her apartment on the very walls of Jericho and she and her whole family were saved from the bloodbath and went on to live in peace in the holy land.

    Ya see….the outcast canaanite whore saved her whole family. I bet they all thought a bit more of her after that. maybe. yeah, i doubt it too.

  70. Champ,
    Wow, your posts are truly a pleasure to read. Yep, i know your not looking for compliment’s but i had to go there and you deserve them. Thanks for sharing a bit about yourself. Oh and i still want to see a pic of your prized guitar.

  71. ya see, rahab had been boinking a soldier who knew where the walls were most vulnerable. If you wanna devine her motivations I guess you’d have to read the old bible, it’s all in there.

  72. Sturg, I saw the Jericho story on veggie tales when LP was a wee lad. The guards were French peas and one of Josh’s men ended up with grape slushee in his ear. Prolly not historically accurate even by biblical standards, but it was a lot of fun.

  73. “flatus, is your “absolute scumbag” judgment on the ret’d gen strictly based on moral or military standards and was it weighed by personal, official records, eyewitness or hearsay evidence?
    got the impression he is not of or near the same calibre as colin.” patd@0907

    it’s based on military standards.

    the basic premise is, no soldier has the right to an adulterous relationship with a subordinate or the spouse of a subordinate, either of whom the perpetrator can potentially order off on a mission likely to result in the aggrieved individual’s death. Such an order is generally regarded as being prejudicial to good order and discipline.

    I can no more imagine Gen Powell engaging in an affair than him marching his troops over the edge of a cliff.

  74. which reminds me of that king david story about the girl’s husband being sent to the front to meet his javelin and Dave takes up with the grieving widow.

  75. The General’s story just gets worse and worse

    the rightwing is in turmoil — they love The General but they see this as an opportunity to get Obamarama
    and they are trying to make the general the victim of some plot to make him the fall guy for Benghazi

  76. Flatus
    Well yes there is that. But this is such an amazing story and so sleazy — Angelina Jolie should play Paula Broadwell in the movie and John Lovitz should play the general Bonnie Hunt can play Holly
    I love it and I particularly like the ones who are trying to make it into more then it is. Saxby Chambliss doesn’t seem remotely concerned about any of the lunatic theories the rightwing radioheads are babbling about. The goops can sponsor all the immigration bills they want but as long as they sponsor nutjob theories they will not get new voters
    they are the party of hate

    can’t wait for the lifetime movie

  77. “the general was a vulnerable man.”Sturg@2105

    Mais,oui. The general had a penis and the West Point graduate reserve officer cum journalist/author a vagina.

  78. sturge, are you hinting that we have before us a reincarnation of ms. rahab perhaps? the impenetrable walls are langley?

    flatus, military standards aside, is this not a possible perjury situation if the guy answered wrongly those personal questions put to all company folks nowadays (including the periodic mandatory lie detector ordeal)? or due to his lofty reputation was he spared the entrance and maintenance exams?

  79. The current total Statutory Debt currently is $16,261,471 million as of October 31, 2012. The Statutory Debt Limit is $16,394,000 million or just $171,765 million, less that a quarter, before we are at the dreaded Debt Crisis once again.

    Where did all this debt come from? Here is the list since Eisenhower along with the percentage change:
    Eisenhower $22,826 8.536%
    Kennedy/Johnson $67,812 23.37%
    Nixon/Ford $295,515 82.54%
    Carter $276,666 42.33%
    Reagan $1,754,182 188.58%
    Bush (GHW) $1,492,617 55.60%
    Clinton $1,485,207 35.56%
    Bush (GW) $5,037,589 88.97%
    Obama $5,561,666 51.98% as of October 31, 2012

    CPI-U Adjusted To 2012 Average as of October 16, 2012
    Eisenhower ($59,241) (2.565%)
    Kennedy/Johnson $110,125 4.89%
    Nixon/Ford $273,145 11.57%
    Carter ($45,027) (1.83%)
    Reagan $2,617,039 101.10%
    Bush (GHW) $1,621,161 31.14%
    Clinton $713,952 10.46%
    Bush (GW) $3,856,215 51.14%
    Obama $4,864,447 42.68% as of October 31, 2012

  80. continuing the spooked spooks saga:
    perhaps we have here an undercover agent disguised as an author. if so, would that role allow her to violate the “no-no on affairs” rule that all other company personnel must abide by? will this also impact her army reserve status?

    btw, who screwed up on vetting the guy before he was appointed? the affair looks to have begun prior to the appointment.

  81. patd

    Senator Saxbee Chambliss has assured us that the General did not lie during his confirmation hearings

  82. I actually got the same creepy & manipulative-vibe when Broadwell was on The Daily Show. (Same vibe I got from the ex-half-gov at the RNC convention in ’08.)

    Why was she sending “threatening” emails to another woman? To mark her territory? Did the ~good~ General have lots of, um, loose ends that could prove to be problematic beyond his personal realm?

    It’s all very soap-opera-esque, but if there was no threat to national security, why…why anything?

    If this was just an FBI v CIA vendetta, THAT is the threat to national security. The need for one department to go after another instead of doing their jobs.

    It will be interesting to see how this effects the Bengahzi hearing, too.

    Oh, and MoJo said Eric Cantor knew weeks ago. I guess kudos to Cantor for not serving a whine before its time.

  83. Are we interested in the Patraeus thing more because it’s about an affair, or, does it actually, really, really have some larger importance? Not the handling or mishandling of it, but the affair itself.
    Is this story just our horrific storm or our dead, blonde girl until the next shiny thing comes along?

    Earthquakes in Guatemala, Kentucky & Myanmar.

    Israel has it’s own kind of quakes going on.

    “…Egypt’s new president provided “a safety net” for the Palestinians.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/12/us-palestinians-israel-violence-idUSBRE8AB07Y20121112

  84. “But mainly they’d have speculated with no evidence that people don’t resign over affairs anymore, and this was really all about Benghazi, and they’d have concocted some lurid fantasy of Chicago thug politics, that Obama and Axelrod were bouncing Petraeus because he was ready to blow the whistle on “the truth” about what happened. I’d reckon we’ll get a good dose of that anyway. Well, Cantor kept it zipped, for whatever reason.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/12/petraeus-the-eric-cantor-angle.html

  85. I’m fascinated by the Petraeus story because it is such a soap opera. It is jaw-dropping astonishing.

  86. Why was she sending “threatening” emails to another woman?

    blue, am expecting next to hear similar scenerio as the depends-clad astronaut. and i agree with you that she did indeed project an off-putting or suspicious vibe in that interview.

    wonder what more cantor is keeping under wraps and what plans and trades he made promising not to expose these little secrets.

  87. Senator Saxbee Chambliss has assured us that the General did not lie during his confirmation hearings

    lie or lay, kgc? common thing to mix up those two. a lie and a lay frequently co-exist.

  88. once upon a time a man in power could discreetly keep a mistress and she would remain discreet. (Or at least that is the story old folks tell.)
    But not anymore. We are starting to see shades of Monica and the blue dress crossed with Edwards’s peccadillos.
    LOL
    What is it about clueless men in power and the crazy women that are attracted to them.

    Blue, “the other woman” that was receiving threatening emails is thought to be the general’s wife. My first thought when I heard of the fast resignation was black mail had to be part of it. Looks like I might have been part right.

    Jack

  89. As we are starting to debate the fiscal cliff and our impending doom, it is important to become educated so you don’t fall for the “scary scary” tactics that will inevitably be used. (it is the way we debate anymore)
    Here is an informative article about debt and the bond market

    Although the Treasury must obtain funds before it can credit bank accounts there is really never a concern about this being achievable. The government will either tax, sell bonds or, in an absolutely worst case scenario, use its central bank to create money. In this regard, the government imposes its powers as a possible currency issuer. As I often say, there’s no such thing as the US government “running out of money” even in a worst case scenario like hyperinflation. So all the fears about the USA having a solvency crisis are unfounded. But that doesn’t mean the USA can’t have a currency crisis resulting from hyperinflation. As I’ve previously explained in my reasoning as to why hyperinflation is an extremely low probability event in the USA, hyperinflation is usually the result of extremely rare exogenous events. This usually involves a collapse in production, loss of war, loss of currency sovereignty, etc.

    Also, click on his “education”, lots of good stuff there

    Jack

  90. pat, I thought the same thing about the Petraeus mistress scorned and astronaut woman stalker/woman scorned similarity.

    Apparently this thing has been cooking for a little bit longer than the last week. Apparently it started when the family friend -- who by all accounts I’ve heard is just that -- who got the threatening letters was concerned enough to contact the FBI.

    And re: the Cantor angle -- my question is who did he inform following October 30? Applyign the logic the ‘cants have been laying out all weekend, through the likes of Peter King, he shoudl have informed the appropriate Congressinal committees and the White House. That obviously did not happen. Were I Mueller, when hs is grilled over it, that would be part of my response -- “Senator (or Congressman), the FBI had not completed its investigation and quite frankly did not want your committee prematurely interfering with it by holding hearings based on incomplete facts that would have compromised our investigation. If you concern regarding the timing of my telling you about this is so great, the number 2 repugn in the House had this information on October 30, and you are asking why I didn’t tell YOU? Perhaps you should ask why HE didn’t tell you.”

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