Wing Nuts on the Loose

Whenever Pat Robertson jumps in you know a story has jumped the shark …

Elections Have Consequences
Florida Gov. Rick Scott gives in, tells Associated Press he now wants to negotiate with the federal government on implementing Obamacare. “The election is over and President Obama won,” Scott said. “I’m responsible for the families of Florida … If I can get to yes, I want to get to yes.”

Promise or Threat?
Texas will not secede. “Gov. Perry believes in the greatness of our Union and nothing should be done to change it,” his press secretary says. “But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government.”

Yeah, This’ll Work
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal has a plan to fix the GOP — say you are changing economic policies without changing economic policies (Slate’s Matthew Yglesias)

So How Did You Lose Iowa and New Hampshire?
Paul Ryan: “When we saw the turnout that was occurring in urban areas that was unprecedented. It did come as a bit of a shock. So those are the toughest losses to have – the ones that catch you by surprise.”

150 thoughts on “Wing Nuts on the Loose”

  1. I’ll bet old Paddy wouldn’t be woo-hoo-ing if the military brass in question was a woman.

    The boys club on MoJo was discussing the repeated and extended deployments to the ME, but just to give men a pass by the sound of it. Yep, I’m sure the women being deployed aren’t lonely. I’m sure the spouses at home aren’t lonely, either.

    It seems, however, that there might be a little more to it.

    “The FBI found classified material on a computer voluntarily handed over by Broadwell earlier in the investigation.”

  2. Woo hoo, and you can take that to the bank. Well, I guess not, but I wish you could take that to the bank.

  3. Yes, i’m sure that the GOP lost in part because of urban turnout, but they didn’t lose Iowa and New Hampshire because of unprecedented “urban” turnout.

    “But Politico’s James Hohmann notes that the Romney-Ryan ticket also lost predominately white and rural states like Iowa and New Hampshire, and underperformed in Midwestern states.

    “Ryan’s fixation on urban areas is not something that merely happened post-election — during the campaign, he wanted to go to inner cities and promote Republican ideas to lift people out of poverty. He did give a campaign speech in Cleveland on poverty, but his message has a contradiction — he has penned budget proposals in Congress that would slash the social safety net, worsening poverty.”

    Clueless, absolutely clueless.

  4. Obama’s team was smart enough to take the campaign where voters are. I’s like seeing the idiotic “county” red/blue map and being told that regardless of the number of votes gotten by Dems, regardless of the balance in the senate shifting more toward dems, regardless of a 130 electoral vote margin in Obama’s favor, most of the country backed the ‘pugns. That type analysis is from idiots who when asked which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead, answer lead.

  5. My theory of why Obama won NH… because the tea partiers that had taken over our state legislature made this state into a national joke. From the buzz I kept hearing, it seems people were more concerned with that than the presidential election. So… methinks many did what I did. Grabbed that ballot and proceeded to vote straight down the Democratic column.

    IOW… people here voted for Obama because they were pissed off at the Republicans in our state government.

    Think of it as a reverse coattails kinda thing.

  6. “That type analysis is from idiots who when asked which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead, answer lead.”


    Further evidence, as if any were needed, that they don’t do arithmetic well. 😉

  7. “When we saw the turnout that was occurring in urban areas that was unprecedented. It did come as a bit of a shock. So those are the toughest losses to have – the ones that catch you by surprise.” Paul Ryan

    Wow, and he was supposed to be their ‘numbers’ guy. 😉

  8. Thank you Pat Robertson. Now every cheating husband can do away with all the lies and excuses and say simply say “hey, I’m a man.”
    Conversely I guess that every hurt and disappointed woman can now just shrug her shoulders and say, “hey, it’s a guy thing.”

    Now, don’t we all feel better?

  9. The republican idea of change is a little like toasting wonder bread. The nutritional value remains the same, it just makes it a bit more edible. 😉

  10. Ryan is an example of someone who has never really known anything but opportunity and encouragement who thinks that anyone can succeed just by applying themselves even if that opportunity and encouragement are totally missing from their lives. Ryan wants to destroy everything that gives those children Hope because he doesn’t understand what made his life possible.

    Hope is the thing with feathers
    That perches in the soul,
    And sings the tune–without the words,
    And never stops at all,

    And sweetest in the gale is heard;
    And sore must be the storm
    That could abash the little bird
    That kept so many warm.

    I’ve heard it in the chillest land,
    And on the strangest sea;
    Yet, never, in extremity,
    It asked a crumb of me.

  11. If Rick Scott is looking for a way to get to yes, its because he’s figured out a way to fleece the program.

    Maybe we should exempt Florida. 😉

  12. During the Korean War, Pat Robertson was an Army lieutenant on at troopship being sent there when his father, a member of Congress pulled some strings and got him transferred to a safe job back in the States. His troops went into combat without him.

    So…Pat Roberston speaks with “authority” about Army officers who behave less than honorably.

    If Pat had wanted to do his duty, the Army would have ignored the pressure from his father.

  13. Ryan reveals, as if more proof was needed, that the foundation of the GOP is racism.

    Gee, why wouldn’t young people be drawn to that?

  14. The deliciousness of Rolling Jubilee

    What to make of Rolling Jubilee, the latest bright idea from Occupy? The idea is simple:

    Banks sell debt for pennies on the dollar on a shadowy speculative market of debt buyers who then turn around and try to collect the full amount from debtors. The Rolling Jubilee intervenes by buying debt, keeping it out of the hands of collectors, and then abolishing it.

    Rolling Jubilee has already raised $115,000 — which they say is enough money to buy and cancel more than $2.3 million of debt. After Thursday’s variety show and telethon, both sums will surely rise substantially.

    And that’s why I think the idea behind the Rolling Jubilee is so delicious. It’s a group of ordinary people who are perfectly happy to help banks lose 95 cents on the dollar by paying them the other 5 cents, and then forgiving the loan entirely. Of course, the banks know that some percentage of their loans will go bad, and, especially in the case of credit card debt, they will often have made a net profit on the account long before they sell off the dregs for 5 cents on the dollar. But even if the banks aren’t being hurt at all, it still feels great to have the opportunity to be an anti-bank for once. There’s something very good about forgiveness.

    Love it, I may send them a few bucks myself


  15. The latest occupy idea

    From the Rolling Jubilee web site

    A bailout of the people by the people

    Rolling Jubilee is a Strike Debt project that buys debt for pennies on the dollar, but instead of collecting it, abolishes it. Together we can liberate debtors at random through a campaign of mutual support, good will, and collective refusal. Debt resistance is just the beginning. Join us as we imagine and create a new world based on the common good, not Wall Street profits.

  16. Headline at WaPo:

    Pelosi to remain House minority leader
    Paul Kane 9:40 AM ET
    She plans to remain a liberal voice opposing the GOP despite another election in which Democrats didn’t win back the majority.”

    Seems to me that in a fair world, winning the majority and winning BACK the majority would be one in the same – but then again, what about the world is fair?

  17. So, Jack, been any bills offered to make things like the Rolling Jubilee illegal? Or is that a little too far for even the Wall Street sycophants in the Congress?

  18. It all makes sense now. Gay marriage and marijuana being legalized on the same day.

    Leviticus 20:13 – “if a man lays with another man he should be stoned.”

    We’ve just been interpreting it wrong all along.

  19. As for Texas leaving the union — Good-bye and take some states with you

    Dear Red States:
    We’re ticked off at your Neanderthal attitudes and politics and we’ve decided we’re leaving.

    We in New York intend to form our own country and we’re taking the other Blue States with us.

    In case you aren’t aware that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and the rest of the Northeast.

    We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of The Enlightened States of America (E.S.A).

    To sum up briefly:
    You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

    We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

    We get Andrew Cuomo and Elizabeth Warren. You get Bobby Jindal and Todd Akin.

    We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

    We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

    We get Harvard. You get Ol’ Miss.

    We get 85 percent of America’s venture capital and entrepreneurs.

    You get Alabama.

    We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.

    Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition’s, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

    With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country’s fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation’s fresh fruit, 95% of America’s quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

    With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

    We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

    38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we’re discussing the death penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

    We’re taking the good weed too. You can have that crap they grow in Mexico.


    Citizen of the Enlightened States of America

  20. Just to relieve your minds (ha, ha):
    Rick Perry opposes secession for Texas

    Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) does not support the petition requesting that the White House allow Texas to peaceably secede from the union.

    “Gov. Perry believes in the greatness of our union and nothing should be done to change it,” Perry’s press secretary, Catherine Frazier, said in a statement given to the Dallas Morning News on Monday. “But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government.”

    … I sincerly hope none of you react to this with a “Who Cares?”. If so, I’ll throw it right back at your state, just for a little revenge. :)

  21. .. oops! Looks like I was too late.

    Keep thinking this is the “United” States of America. But luckily, someone here always reminds me that in their ‘world’, many of you feel you are better, smarter and more enlightened than the rest of us.

    I still don’t know why I feel the need to come here so often for a good dose of put down.

  22. Maybe I’m hoping some of your beloved stardust will fall on the rest of us, and the whole world will be as perfect as yours.

  23. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) Section 3 – Government Current Receipts and Expenditures the 2012 Q1/Q3 average of National Defense Consumption Expenditures and Gross Investment by Type (Table 3.11.5.) is on track to be $816.3 billion as compared to the “official” $645.7 billion FY 2012 and $613.9 billion FY 2013 amounts.

    The sequestration amounts to an annual average reduction of about $55 billion per year for 9 years or about 6.74% of the current Defense expenditures. When I worked in the private sector, I was required to produce a 5% budget cut every 3 to 5 years.

    How Politicians and the Press Overstated Military Budget Cuts by $100 Billion
    By Justin Elliott, ProPublica, August 15, 2012, 11:34 AM

    Anxiety is rising in Washington about the big cuts to military spending slated to go into effect in January unless Congress takes action.

    Republicans, defense industry executives, and some Democrats are arguing hard against the automatic cuts, which were the result of last summer’s deal [1] to raise the debt ceiling and would also cut nondefense spending equally. Multiple members of Congress have warned that slashing defense spending by $600 billion would devastate the military, with Sen. Lindsey Graham this month predicting the cuts [2] would deal “a death blow to our ability to defend ourselves.”

    There’s just one problem: The number they cite is wrong.

    The law triggering the cuts does not slash the military budget by $600 billion. That figure — which has also been widely cited in the media [3] — overstates the amount of military cuts by more than $100 billion.

    The oft-repeated higher figure of $600 billion is actually the total in projected deficit reduction that the government would get by cutting $492 billion from the military. The extra $108 billion in projected savings would come via interest payments the government wouldn’t have to make. Since the government would be spending less, it could borrow less and thus save on interest.

  24. Jace,
    I’m not talking to you, so no need to tell me how offended you are by my blanket statement.

    As Flatus would say: the ones I’m talking to know who they are. And it’s not everyone.

  25. California: State of Prejudice?

    “California is home to eighty- four hate groups, the highest number of any state. This is according to the Spring 2009 “Intelligence Report,” published by the Southern Poverty Law Center. These groups include the Ku Klux Klan, Neo-Nazis, Neo-Confederates, Racist Skinheads, and other general hate groups. California is also the headquarters for the Minute Men, an anti-Latino, anti-immigrant organization. Mexican Americans, Asians and African Americans have suffered from nativist sentiments in California. The state has a history of miscegenation laws, racist immigration policies, and eugenics. California’s academic institutions and public health organizations directed racism in a way that would influence Nazi scientists. The purpose of this study is to examine these historical issues.”

    …. thank goodness I left there 18 years ago. Now looking back, I remember how self satisfied and arrogant so many of us were there.

  26. In 2010, fifty-two (52) Democrats lost their re-election. In 2012, at most the Democrats will gain are eight (8) seats and Republicans will keep their majority. Nancy Pelosi is not now, nor has she ever been, qualified to be a Democrat leader in Congress.

    Pelosi decides to run again for House leader post
    By LAURIE KELLMAN and JIM ABRAMS, November 14, 2012 11:36 AM EST

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday she will run to keep her job as the Democratic leader in the House after a pair of elections that kept the party in the minority there even as Democrats gained seats in the Senate and a second term for President Barack Obama.

  27. … another interesting little tidbit linked to that 3 year old story that popped up on my screen when I did very simple search (the first story was very unexpected too).

    Why the United States Will Fall to Second-World Status in the Next 50 Years: Top 10 Social Problems Facing the US

    “As an American citizen (naturalized, not born), currently living outside the US, it’s much easier to see what’s wrong with the US than when I was living in it. Unfortunately, many Americans are still burying their heads in the sand, pretending it’s the country it always was, but that’s not true. As Asia and other regions of the world are set to pass the US, in my mind, in the next 50 years the US will fall to second world status and here are the top ten reasons why.”

  28. Chloe

    Since 2000 the US has been awarded 65 Nobel prizes. Doesn’t sound like a nation headed toward 2nd world status to me.. Sure we have problems but who in the world doesn’t.
    So what does the world really think about the future of the US? Just look at the interest rate on the 30 year treasury.

    Yields on 30-year bonds fell 3 basis points to 2.72%, also their lowest since early September.

    Doesn’t look like anyone else in the world is worried about a declining US.

    Besides , the guy is living in Thailand.


  29. Chloe
    Didn’t your governor talk about secession? So to get elected he talked secession then to keep Texas on the Federal teat he swings the other way. Just can’t pin that rascal down can we.

    BTW, while more than just a little bit snarky, KGC’s comment does have a valid point. Places like New York and California send a lot more money to the federal gov. then they get back. Then places like Mississippi, Alabama, live off the largess of the federal government.


  30. One other thing

    If you remove places where southern culture dominates(that includes nothern urban schools) from the education statistics then the US shoots to the top. There is something about southern culture that is anti intellectual and learning.


  31. Jack, I gave you a thumbs up on your first comment, but I’m afraid you’re losing me on the last two.

    Things are changing in the south, like everywhere else. To call a ‘culture’ anti-intellectual and leaning starts sounding a little prejudice to me.

    No matter what you say about Perry, he’s running one hell of a prosperous state here. If you could see the high percentage of northern license plates moving here, you’d know what I mean. Once they’re here, their attitude changes.

    You seem to defend a lot of people, but it doesn’t sound like you’re about to defend any of those too far south of you.

  32. Maybe all of this is part of a ‘blame’ game. I don’t know. All I know is that it gets old.

  33. … maybe the ‘mosquitos’ have just gotten to my brain, and I’m not thinking straight.

    But when I constantly read ‘extremes’ from one side, I guess I just feel the need to go extreme from the other.

  34. here’s my choice for today’s CSM cartoon

    I saw the letter posted by KGC somewhere else on my travels on the internets this morning. So someone came up with a snarky (albeit clever, IMO) response to all the talk about secession by some Republicans. It’s called satire. And just like the shows produced by John Stewart and Stephen Colbert… there’s usually more than a grain of truth to it… or is that truthiness…

  35. Very appropriate heading on the blog today, Craig.

    Seems there are a few (in the north) who would like to rid themselves of a bunch of southern states, so the numbers on education, etc. would become more impressive to themselves and the rest of the world.

    But then again, maybe it’s just all a little harmless sarcasm. I’ll just leave it at just that. I always enjoy laughing at a good joke.

  36. Better, yet… everyone just ignore everything I said (Craig, please feel free to delete it all).

    After all, it’s ‘just a blog’.

  37. Although I hear WV is one of the hope to soon be dearly departed, I’m just glad to see that somehow everyone here is missing that WV is on the list of those trying to get a petition signed to secede (again) ad we’d have the record, wouldn’t we? Seceded from union in 1861 as part of VA, seceded from VA and Confederacy in 1863, and trying to secede from USofA in 2012. Well, after being born and bred in ‘bama, having lived in NH, ME & VA, and now WV, I ain’t going with the state if it leaves. And boy, howdy, we’ve got it all. Obesity, smoking, drug and alcohol epidemic, lack of concern about crappy education system, shitty environment, ingrained dependency class…there are others. The new Confederacy should just love having WV in it, but my home and office will continue to be a part of the Yew Nighted States – two islands of sanity of sort in an ocean of insanity.

  38. Chloe

    It is all about the numbers
    How many red states pay out more than they took in?

    You can get the school numbers on the Department of education too.

  39. Chloe, as a product of su’thun education, (and waaay too damn many years of it I might add) I like to think that even someone as dumb as i am can get a decent one south of the M-D line. Of course that could be a failure of the system I guess… but I do seem to do OK against my bar colleagues with more highfalutin’ northern educations despite my poor sou’thun roots.

  40. And it’s a rare day here on the Trail that most folks wouldn’t need to at least consider a tongue/cheekectomy or resection, or whatever removing one from the other is called.

  41. While it might be nice, in our dreams, to see certain southern states(Mississippi) form a separate country. The sad fact is we already have one third world country on our Southern border, we don’t need another one.
    Sad, but looking at the statistics it seems that the only thing Mississippi excels at is taking federal money.


  42. jack, think we could adapt that rolling jubilee to cover our deficit and back off the f cliff?

    somewhere in the dim dark recesses of my so-called mind, i remember there had been an instance (truman? fdr?) when some debts were cancelled by exec order based on national emergency. is this just machinations of my madness or did such a thing happen and could happen again given the dire predictions of national emergency and widespread harm?
    sorta the reverse of the fed reserve printing $$… some entity could cancel debt/deficit and relieve the fed from mint making.

  43. When looking at the comments by pollsters and pundits calling a close election, we in the ACT had a territory election two weeks before the minor one in the US. Similar problems with forecasting. The total votes collected by the two major parties was so close to each other – 41 vote difference (enough to just fill a suburban bus) – that it left everyone wondering where they went wrong. Pollsters got it badly wrong – especially party polling – while the pundits could only get it right on hindsight. A bit of questioning of the pollsters has brought some major problems to light with methodology. The first problem is that an ideologically based political party will only accept results that confirms it ideology and so will seek polls from companies that skew the results towards affirmation of their ideology. Of course, the results are nonsense and a waste of money as any sane person will attest, but no one suggested that ideologically driven candidates are sane. Then we have the media initiated polls. These have their own problems. 30 years ago, phone polling was done with only landline connections. Now the majority of people have cell phones so this polling technique is fraught. A person may have multiple phone numbers thus skewing the household demographics. In addition, there is a higher reject rate of compliance with polling, from 5% in the 80’s to nearly 20% today. That means finding representative people fitting the statistical categories is more difficult. There is no certainty over the representative group and so the mathematics drives the polls all over the place. Polling companies are finding that they might have to go back to the old technique of doorknock interviews. It is expensive and is also fraught with the changes in our social organisation. Whatever happens, the ability to predict polls using past techniques has slipped away from reliable to very unreliable. The social mood is so volatile – as it always has been – so predicting the electoral pulse is difficult. In the end, polling companies will produce results the people paying for them want to hear.

  44. That very Progressive Thom Hartmann was actually speaking with a conservative today and in agreement of the benefit of some form of a Value Added Tax similar to Germany in exchange for reducing the corporate rate tax so that our manufacturing was protected from imports while our manufacturers were not at severe disadvantage overseas. It was an interesting conversation.

  45. Pollsters probably need to work out some form of workable on line polling with pre screened respondents. We all know that any of the popularity polls are totally useless as they are all biased to viewpoint, but if there were some way to validate the demographics it would solve a lot of the non-respondent problems.

  46. Just glancing at these numbers

    while those with negative fund flows were Blue states the education didn’t break down red blue, but mostly southern

    Red states in the north had a better than average education outcome.

    Then you had California and
    My how California has fallen over the years.

  47. I’ve lived in 3 of states in the top quintile, one in the 2nd, and 1 in the 5th. Given my ‘druthers I’d go back to any of them except the one I’m in – which is of course the HIGHEST ranked of all I’ve lived in measured by most bang gotten for the buck given.

  48. KGC – Saw the Leviticus “they were getting it all wrong” joke. My state just legalized both. Unfortunately the sad story of my life: Straight and allergic to pot. I still voted for others to be happy. :-)

  49. Pogo,
    You made me laugh so hard.

    All I’m doing down here is trying to defend my homeland! :)

  50. Jack,

    Don’t get me started on California. It’s biggest problem was that the finances never kept up with the population. When I was born there were 8 million people in the state. Up until about 1970, the educational system was wonderful, but the costs to keep it virtually free and high quality outstripped the huge influx of people and the birthrate. Now it is over 37 million, but the tax base simply doesn’t support necessary services.

  51. … and Jack, sorry, but I’m speaking from the heart, so I’m not interested in looking up your numbers.

  52. It would be interesting to see those reading scores normed by percentage of the school population for whom English is not the primary language spoken in the home. although it’s not perfect, there seems to be a trend of lower scores along the SW & Southern crescents.

  53. Well a Southern education can be whatever you make of it as Don Williams did in one of my favorite songs.


  54. Jack,
    Just sat through several hours of meetings with major petrochem producers and their clients. Over the next 5 years based on expansion plans already underway the US synthetic resin (plastics) producers will expand production from 1.9 million tons/yr to 5.7 million tons/yr.80% of this expansion will be in TX/LA. This is largely due to natural gas being the main feedstock and projections are for it to remain cheap for years.

    We spoke yesterday of the US need for growth and our best chance of growing out of this fiscal nightmare is staring us right in the face. Unleash the energy/petrochem industry.

    With so much instability in the middle east we could not only meet our own domestic demands but regain our old position as a stable supplier of energy exports. This could create a massive amount of good jobs and really go a long way to balance the budget.

  55. Chloe, not sure which of my inane comments did it, but glad to lighten up your day. I’m a frustrated comic (frustrated guitar player, frustrated ….) but an accomplished smartass. Mrs. P and I went and saw Lewis Black a couple of years ago. She said she thought she was at home – both of us being more than a little intolerant of stupid shit.

  56. pogo… awwww shucks… I bet you even have all your teeth… 😉

    As you would know… many in the northern part of my state have lots in common with the so called southern rednecks. Hell… my little one horse town went for Romney big time. So what… I love living here.

  57. Update at 2:02 p.m. ET. Wants To Do “Even Better”:

    “I hope and intend to be an even better president in the second term than I was in the first,” Obama says.

  58. Jax

    Hate to point out the obvious but fossil fuels are truly screwing with the planet. The best approach is that oil is too valuable to burn. We have the supply and it doesn’t belong in our cars.

  59. So, do we have another GOP attempt at impeachment in our future, in an effort to undermine the 2nd-term administration before it even gets out of the gate? It seems like a foundation is being laid towards that end.

  60. Jax

    The new discoveries in gas and oil is changing a lot of things. Just listened to an NPR report about how it is going to change how we view the middle east. We are getting less and less oil from there and more in the western hemisphere. We have less need to worry about keeping the sea lanes open. But china has become very dependent on oil from the middle east.

    As to plastics, it is going to take a lot more specialized plastics to get those new fuel mileage standards everybody wants.

  61. My bad I forgot to put the flaming tildes of sarcasm in my post -~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    California frequently not only wants out of the US – it also wants to split in two — sometimes vertically and sometimes horizontally

  62. I wonder if Mittens boys will sign up to fight in Israeli -Palestinian/Syrian war

  63. “California frequently not only wants out of the US — it also wants to split in two — sometimes vertically and sometimes horizontally”


    Will this be before or after it slides into the ocean? 😉

  64. Lindsay Graham what a putz — this is the clown who tried to pretend it was safe to go rug shopping in eyerack – he is concerned about the truth getting to the American people — what a big fat liar he is

  65. Jace

    I think the people who want the vertical split are counting on the coast falling in and then they will have beach front property.

    Both though do split the state somewhat along political lines. The cleanest break is the vertical cut — the coast up and down is liberal and the rest of the state and the south not so much

  66. KCG,

    I love California. Will be spending Thanksgiving there. I don’t care how it splits as long as it remains deep blue. 😉

  67. We are blue…even our Republicans (except for the complete nut jobs) would be Democrats any place else

    So what was the final final for Carmona — it looked like a ten point spread — I had hoped for better things

  68. If the republican explanation for their recent election loss is going to continue to be that voters made a mistake and were too dumb or ignorant know what they were voting for, they really need to reconsider their method of voter out reach.

  69. Jack, I regret resorting to name calling. I have a great respect for you, and know that you aren’t a bigot.

    KGC, I also hope you know I was in no way implicating you into anything I said. I’ve always loved California, and still do. I spent most of my life there.

    Jace, I’m sure you’ll enjoy your Thanksgiving there — the weather will probably be beautiful.

    I still have relatives in the state (on hubby’s side) that is.

  70. “I’m very sorry that we didn’t win. I know that you expected to win, we expected to win, we were disappointed with the result, we hadn’t anticipated it, and it was very close but close doesn’t count in this business.” Mitt Romney

    “And as I sit here still holding my ass in my hands, I can assure you that it was very close.” Mutt Rmoney

  71. Nemo,

    Thank you, I think we will. Two daughters live in CA, and son is coming in from Austin. All meeting in Ventura. 😉

  72. Jace, we live about 2 hours or so from Austin.

    When we lived in California, we were about 45 minutes or so south of Ventura. As a matter of fact, I drove to work there (to Ventura) for about a year — my job kept me driving in many different directions. Even took job training in San Francisco for 7 weeks at one time.

    Hope you and your family have a great get together.

    … and apologize to anyone I’ve offended today. Like I’ve said before, when you’re me, you get real used to saying ‘sorry’.

  73. Nemo,

    My oldest daughter lives in San Francisco, my youngest in Thousand Oaks.

    My son lives in Austin, a place that we really enjoy visiting as well.

    My son spoils us, he takes us to Lockhart for barbeque,Texas style. :smile:

  74. got a friend from new jersey who was in georgetown in the same class as bill clinton and who was wit me in navy school out in 69 and showed me wc fields, marx’s etc. in the old dorm tv room and now lives in Pipe Creek outa austin.
    good to hear his neck of the woods mentioned every now and then. it’s a carson thing. hey-o.

  75. from the time i was able to look at the cartoons in the new yorker magazine (start at the back) I have done the big heart on NYC. From BLACKBOARD JUNGLE to “West Side Story” to “On the Waterfront” “The Man With the Golden Arm” “To Sir With Love” jeez, what a list….some kind of einstonian arnofinity deal.

    so, asa was sayin’, nyc.

    So anyway…..Thanks again, NYC.

  76. Jace, It really is a small world. Thousand Oaks is beautiful and had a gorgeous mall there that we used to frequent. It was only a 20 minute drive from where we live (at least by car).

    When we were younger, and into riding those race bikes (for both exercise and fun) we’d ride our bikes along the back roads that took us through some beautiful farm lands (may be gone by now) on our way to Thousand Oaks. That took considerably longer (and I only did it a few times).

    Loved that area though.

  77. Hi Tony,
    Sorry you had to witness my bad behavior today.
    Hope everything is going well.

    I’m outa here for a while. I think I more than hogged enough ban width to last me for quite a long time.

  78. Chloe
    No problems here, I’ve got a hard head, I can take the licks };-)


  79. and apologize to anyone I’ve offended today. Like I’ve said before, when you’re me, you get real used to saying ‘sorry’.

    Oh my dear, your great!
    Defending your state and being proud, really good..I have had to do the same thing for Michigan and the unions..God there are so many anti union, anti northern people here in this right to work state of Florida..Its taken a bit of getting used too..I love Florida though, even though we are the butt of jokes regarding are election process. Can’t blame folks though after GWB and the big “hanging chad” debacle…

  80. Mittens said he lost because the US is nothing but a nation of takers…and his vision of America could not compete with “free stuff” like the dream act.

    Mittens — we hardly knew yee and we are so glad
    go away you stupid self serving jerk bully clueless moron

  81. Nancy P the 72 million dollar speaker she is a powerhouse fundraiser for the Democrats

  82. The reasons for Romney’s loss from his own mouth:

    Obamacare also made a difference for them, because as you know, anybody now 26 years of age and younger was now going to be part of their parents’ plan, and that was a big gift to young people.

    They turned out in large numbers, a larger share in this election even than in 2008.

    You can imagine for somebody making $25,000 or $30,000 or $35,000 a year, being told you’re now going to get free health care – particularly if you don’t have it – getting free health care worth, what, $10,000 per family, in perpetuity.

    I mean, this is huge.

    For Latinos free health care was a big plus..

    But in addition with regards to Hispanic voters, the amnesty for children of illegals, the so-called Dream Act kids, was a huge plus for that voting group.

    So here is the nub of it: the bottom 47% weren’t elitist enough to vote for him.

    And this is Romney’s big raspberry to the American folk.

    Yer all a bunch of free loaders!

    “Now,” thinks Romney to himself, “no point in that tax amnesty that brought my tax rate up to 10%. Get my rate back down to zero like it was before I had to stump up with the figures. After all, tax avoidance and evasion by the top 1% is legitimate corporate welfare – we deserve this government money. Unlike the the vets and pensioners who are ruining our country by getting, ughhh, pauper’s welfare. That is just soooo common, don’t you know.”

  83. I find it ironic that repubs , who say they love
    America,and who claim to be the party of Lincoln,
    now want to secede! They are showing the truth, that they are not REALLY proud of Lincoln’s connection to
    their party. He established that no state can secede
    and I’ll bet most of them are really cursing him now.

    RE: raise tax rates or cut deduction…I’ve been hearing all day that there is not enough money in
    cutting deductions, and that O means to go for the taxhikes. I think I like that better.

    My sister has been in Cabo for a few weeks and just
    had an af attack. She’s fine and has meds now, but the sonogram was not good enough to show if it was a
    heart attack. Then again it might have been her
    low potassium!

  84. The republican hand wringing over their election loss continues unabated. Too many gifts,too many minorities, not enough voters,poor candidate, poor message.

    Let me help you out folks, and provide you with a clear simple explanation that will make your lives going forward a whole lot easier, and require a good deal less soul searching.

    We’re just not that into you!! Got it?

  85. I am still basking in the afterglow of Obama’s reelection. Your title is very apropos, Craig. Things are crazy here in southern New Mexico…the repugs are saying and doing crazy things in response to Obama’s reelection. A lot of hard feelings and insecurities. My Hispanic neighbors on either side of me have had a rift because the tea party dude said the ‘N’ word. It really offended my neighbor and everyone was glad to see the repug signs come down after the election.

    KGC…New Mexico celebrates its Statehood Centennial this year and we are BLUE, please include us in your blue plan!

  86. “did romney really accuse us of being a nation of tankers?”


    No, just the ones who didn’t vote for him. 😉

  87. I didn’t always agree with him & some things he pushed waaay too far, but he made some good points, too. And whomever posted yesterday, that the Republicans lost because Ron Paul wasn’t their nom was correct.

    “The Internet, he stated, must remain free of government control as it breaks control of the government/media complex that disseminates propaganda.”

    “…Why is the TSA permitted to abuse the rights of any American traveling by air? Why did the big banks, the large corporations, and foreign banks and foreign central banks get bailed out in 2008 and the middle class lost their jobs and their homes?”

    “Why is patriotism thought to be blind loyalty to the government and the politicians who run it, rather than loyalty to the principles of liberty and support for the people?”

    Read more: A retiring Ron Paul scolds Washington’s failures: Did America listen | Washington Times Communities
    Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter

  88. jace – It’s like the internet joke/faux quote from Rmoney: Vote for me, you parasites.
    His disdain (and Antoinette’s) for most Americans, aka “you people,” was his undoing.

    He didn’t want to sit down and have a beer (non-alcoholic) with us.

  89. My family is doing fine after Hurricane Sandy and I still believe Mother Nature influenced the election. The day Frankenstorm arrived, Science came to town. Just as in the 1930’s, a great dust cloud left the Midwest and traveled to New York. It was evident there was a huge, natural problem. So, Science is making a comeback and until it hits the populated east coast, the attention dynamic won’t change. The evidence of catastrophic change is happening all around the globe, but when it hits home, it changes perceptions. Science is gaining ground over superstition and religion.

  90. Jace…actually, Arizona did turn a bit pink this past election. And if you view the maps of both Arizona and New Mexico, we have similar voting geography. To the north of both states, it is blue. And to the south on the border of Mexico, it is blue. In the middle, it is bright red — Phoenix is in the red zone. New Mexico had more female Hispanics vote this year…a great demographic in an area where Planned Parenthood doesn’t exist because of Evangelicals and Catholics. In Arizona, it is Mormons and Evangelicals who formed an unholy alliance via Brewer…who is actually a shot and beer repug.

  91. httpv://

    One thing about secession talk, it sure makes for some good tunes. Coming soon to state houses and court houses near you. The bonnie blue flag.

  92. BW,

    My area is still red to the core. We didn’t gain the senate seat, but the fact that republicans had to spend millions to hold it was encouraging. It should have been a gimme for them. 😉

  93. Blue,

    I got rooked. I voted for Obama and I still haven’t gotten my gift. 😉

  94. A young female, Hispanic in-state group ran ads during the election tying our local state rep to Akin and Murdoch. Very effective. As for Rove? Crossroads ran many ads, but they never were nuanced or redone for the New Mexico. ‘Big, runaway government, Keystone pipeline, drilling in the Gulf’….not popular in a state with a natural gas industry which would be negatively impacted by any of the issues Crossroads was hawking. Repugs lost. They spent a boatload of money trying to pick winners and losers. It makes me happy.

  95. BW

    We welcome New Mexico into the blue state coalition
    and while we aren’t ready to take AZ..we applaud their incipient pinkness

    Mittens — you are the biggest taker of all and we are still guessing since we never saw your tax returns and Ann(toinette) says seeing them would have only fueled the fire.

    It’s a myth that Rmoney would have won if it weren’t for the big storm. Sometimes you just have to tell Bill Clinton to STFU and let Bobby Jindal speak –how rare is that

  96. BP — I wonder how they will spin their admitting criminal liability for the spill –big fines coming.

  97. wish the media would discuss the senate bill which makes the tax cuts permanent for the under $250000 folk and which is languishing in the house. on newshour last night, sen durbin tried to talk about it and encourage swift passage to end uncertainty for the 98% of us and the 97% of small businesses. questions should be put to boehner and ryan and the teeper terrorists. they need to be on the hotseat and to explain why they won’t allow an immediate address of and a vote on it. the ball is definitely in their court and it’s a big ball.

  98. Club for Growth and Crossroads affiliates spent large in AZ. For their money they got Jeff Flake. High investment, low return.
    On the bright side it pumped a lot of money into the trade channels. 😉

  99. “the ball is definitely in their court and it’s a big ball.”

    That’s the only big ball in the entire chamber. 😳

  100. The goops don’t want to give up the tax cuts for the middle class — they think that is their bargaining chip

    but when all the taxes go up on 1/1 — they will get the blame…well they better

    And I am glad to see people fighting back on letting social security and medicare be called entitlements — they are earned benefits

    I am curious — Mittens is 65 what does he use for his medicare gap policy. Or does he refuse medicare because he is not

  101. The repugs did get their message out and were well financed to do so…and it was rejected by a majority of Americans…well over 50% of the voting population. To most that is a mandate. I doubt if the repugs will ever get beyond the denial stage of their loss.

  102. craig and any other cognoscenti of hill matters, is the sen bill limited to extending the middleclass tax or does it have negatives buried within too unpleasant for conservatives to swallow?
    understandable that they consider passing it would cause them to lose a major bargaining chip, but it would help rebuild image bigtime.

  103. KGC,

    They will get to the tax thing, but not until they find out who the General(s) slept with and when.
    After all, the fate of the nation hangs in the balance.

  104. How big a jerk is Lindsay Graham — yesterday he made Rand Paul look reasonable

  105. pat, you such a dreamer.

    I see grampy and the pipsqueak are trying to go toe to toe with Rice, and Obama is stepping in and saying pick on someone your own size, so they pivot and say, you, too. What a pair of dunces. Whatever stature grampy ever had has been lost since his loss to Obama and his desperate attempts to seem relevant. The wuss should be asking the CIA and FBI about the info Rice gave rather than shooting the messenger, particularly since every indication is that the CIA intel she was given said exactly what she said. David Ignatius –

    ““Talking points” prepared by the CIA on Sept. 15, the same day that Rice taped three television appearances, support her description of the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate as a reaction to Arab anger about an anti-Muslim video prepared in the United States. According to the CIA account, “The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.”

    So how is it the UN Ambassador’s fault that CIA got it wrong at that time??? HMMMM grampy? pipsqueak? Do you fracking idiots think that the UN Ambassador had a forking thing to do with gathering and distributing that info to the Admin? Two stupid liars IMHO.

  106. Betrayher is talking on Friday so I guess they can move the tax matter on Monday

    Petraeus will explain what happened and how the affair had no impact on what he had testified and that Bill Kristol and all the other wingnuts are simply liars

    How will the right spin that?

  107. Lindsay Graham desperately needs counseling. Stubborn and very much into denial.

  108. kgc, they (house republicans) will not be blamed for not passing it. they could convene and pass it within days right now and they’re not being blamed for their present inaction so why would media blame them later. no, they’re all (including some of us) blaming the prez for poor leadership overlooking the fact that the bill sits in the house awaiting action from house leadership.

    jace, you’re so right about the absence of balls (big or small) in the house except for the senate bill.

  109. Sooner or later, the repug Senate duo will realize, Obama is here for four more years and once the diluted tea party returns to the House…it is Obama’s game in January!

  110. CNN I think starting with Anderson Cooper everytime the Susan Rice story/McCain comes on — they replay Condiliar talking about WMD’s

    McCain says the situation is different clearly he and the rug buyer are going to get a lot of push back on trying to say

    Rice is Rice boyz — these ladies were just doing their jobs

    The right is assaulting Susan Rice with information (unvetted) from Fox News

    McCain a tiny footnote in history
    Lindsay graham Who?

  111. “…whomever posted yesterday, that… was correct.” -Blue

    That was me! Finally, someone admits it (that I’m right)! Yay!

  112. patd

    I think it’s too soon to give ’em crap for not passing and besides the media has been busy with other things
    I heard some guy talking about the current escalation of conflict in the middle east saying “Americans are more worried about the missile in Betrayhers pants then the missiles that falling all over the Middle East”

    Based on what this guy said, we better get our immigration house in order because I think we are going to have to take in the State of Israel —

    Let’s give Israel one of the fly-over states

  113. Pogo,

    Gramps is just a bitter old man who still has not gotten over 2008. He’s looking for his pound of flesh because somehow that will make him feel better.

    I thought he was a prick in 2008 and everything he has done since simply validates my opinion.

    As for Graham, don’t even get me started on him.
    If he represents the moderate sensible wing of the party, the party has moved well past the ‘dark side’ and into a realm previously unknown to mankind.

  114. perhaps we’re seeing the beginning of the re-election campaigns of the good senators? never too early to start hauling in the funding. we’ll be seeing all sorts of contortions now out of folks like mitch whose terms are up in less than 2 years.

  115. Let’s give Israel one of the fly-over states

    Well, since you said it first, I’ve always supported turning Florida into the Israeli state. It would have to be an improvement.

  116. Will Cain, Glenn Beck paid hack and Soledad OBrian house pet, thinks what Mittens said about the election is true

  117. IMO McCain, after having the crap beaten out of him for numerous years in the name of the US, has earned the right of saying his piece.

    The squirt with the poker who jabs him in the side has not earned a like right through service to our country.

  118. The population of Israel is roughly 8 million

    They would fit right in …not need for acclimation and they would be job creators.

    Perhaps Mittens can handle the logistics of the move

  119. With some minor renovations, DisneyWorld can easily sub for Jerusalem. They already have catacombs and what-not.

  120. Flatus

    McCain has earned respect and he should have everyone’s thanks for serving. Like all Americans he has first amendment rights. He is however an elected member of our national congress and has some obligation to the truth….not some unvetted crap from Bill Kristol but to hearing all the facts and then making up his mind. He says he wants to hear Petraeus and now he will — shouldn’t he have waited to make all these charges he is now going to have to walk back

    He has reduced himself to background noise

  121. It’s a pleasure reading this mornings posts.

    Jace… not to worry about the son in Austin… my hubby tells me that Austin has petitioned to secede from Texas.

    Flatus… I used to respect McCain… but after picking Palin to be a heartbeat away from the presidency if he had won… he lost it from me. And now he just continues to put party over country over and over again. IMO, he deserves the drubbing he’s getting.

    Bethy… hope your sister is ok…

    Yup… Florida… didn’t it star in Woody Allens’s movie “Bananas”…

  122. With some minor renovations, DisneyWorld can easily sub for Jerusalem. They already have catacombs and what-not. Iggy

    I think there is a Christian theme park in the area of Disney World. The Holy Land Experience.

    It’s a match!

  123. poobah, how were the ladies of the league and the book signing turnout in orlando yesterday?
    btw, be interesting to hear from friend helen about things heating up in gaza, syria, turkey etc.

  124. KC, the pitch to Hannah Barbera for a new cartoon, “Grampy and the Pipsqueak” never made it past the receptionist’s desk. See, I thought it was brilliant.

  125. “It’s a pleasure reading this mornings posts.”

    Of course it brings you pleasure.

    A light bulb just went off in my head this morning, and I realize that I have been reading a hate site here. There are no longer any dissenting voices.

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