Follow the Money, Wall Street Shies Away from Gun Industry

Whether or not the Newtown killings persuade Congress to do something, it looks like Wall Street will. Gun industry investments are suddenly toxic.

In a pattern Wall Street experts expect to see across the industry, the New York City investment group that owns the maker of the Newtown murderer’s weapon has announced plans to sell all of its stake.

“We believe that this decision allows us to meet our obligations to the investors whose interests we are entrusted to protect without being drawn into the national debate that is more properly pursued by those with the formal charter and public responsibility to do so. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and communities impacted by this tragic and devastating event.” — Cerberus Capital Management press release.

Cerberus owns the Freedom Group, a holding company for major gun manufacturers like Bushmaster, which made the Newtown killer’s weapon, and Remington. A former Cerberus executive who is now CEO of the Freedom Group is a powerful official in the National Rifle Association. The company’s gun makers sell 1.2 million weapons and 2.6 billion rounds of ammunition every year.

It looks like Cerberus had little choice. One of its major investors, the California Teachers’ Retirement System, was threatening to pull out if Freedom Group stayed in the portfolio. You’d think a teachers fund would have gotten nervous about this investment before now.

It’s not like this means gun manufacturers will be shutting down. Already, a Brazilian weapons firm is in talks about buying all or part of Freedom Group. But industry analysts think Cerberus will not get a good price for the holding company, even though it is twice as big as its next largest competitor, Smith & Wesson Holding Corp (which is also facing a loss of investors).

One scenario, which becomes acutely more possible if the assault weapons ban is restored, is that Bushmaster and the other gun makers in Freedom Group’s stable could be sold off in pieces and downsized, reducing output and raising prices. Now there’s one story in our crazy leveraged buyout world that I would love to see.

Bushmaster ad featuring weapon type used in Newtown massacre
Bushmaster ad featuring weapon type used in Newtown massacre

129 thoughts on “Follow the Money, Wall Street Shies Away from Gun Industry”

  1. Sounds like time to sell it short against the box.

    It’s really difficult for the mega-pension fund managers to meet stated investment goals when market segments become socially toxic as their earnings are about to go through the roof.

  2. repost from last thread:
    pogo, thanks for bringing up hippa privacy protections.
    va is another mh record amasser that an expanded backgroud data base could mine. if so employed would ptsd and brain injury cases or just the “danger to themselves or others” determine the nonsale.
    with criminal records it’s a bit clearer cut and easier to identify the line and the data base is readily available. felons no get guns. but then what if a felon has his civil rights restored (in some states this is automatic upon completion of sentence… at least for voting purposes). but even there, is a perjuror or enron white collar crime type, aka felons, on the background nono list?

  3. Hi y’all--my puter has been down for the past month, which spared you from my input on gun control. Have kept up with the debate as best I can on my cell phone. Interesting.

  4. Hey Faire…. nice to see you again.

    Craig… that scenario was tried on Rush Limbaugh… it didn’t work with an individual.. I find it hard to believe it will work with an entire industry.

    Still… I laud the California Teacher’s Retirement System for it’s stance.

  5. I thought of one thing when I saw the title “Follow The Money, Wall Street Shies Away…”:
    Little Steven’s song Sun City (1985).

    That song was pungent, in your face. It called out all the entertainers who made money working in apartheid-era South Africa. These were big names, covering Las Vegas strip to rockers. These were entertainers who spoke about how they supported Rights at home, while at the same time making big money working in a place that denied basic rights to their own citizenry. After “Sun City” came out, names were named and PR Reps spent an awful lot of time explaining why their clients WERE playing in Sun City. And it became really unpopular, and career wise, unwise, to play in Sun City.

    Hey, if it takes going through the wallet to reach the conscience, full speed ahead.

    From “Sun City” by Little Steven 1985

    Our government tells us we’re doing all we can
    Constructive engagement is Ronald Reagan’s plan
    Meanwhile people are dying and giving up hope
    This quiet diplomacy ain’t nothing but a joke

    I ain’t gonna play Sun City

    It’s time to accept our responsibility
    Freedom is a privilege nobody rides for free
    Look around the world baby it can’t be denied
    Why are we always on the wrong side

    I ain’t gonna play Sun City

  6. In my younger days, I would have found some to be an adventure and with my roughing it skills, you would have wanted me on your team. Now, if anything like that happens, please kill me first. I’d just be a burden on everyone.

    Carol… you do realize that with your medical skills you probably wouldn’t be allowed to die. I bet the same would happen to me because of my weaving skills.
    I can just see those “lord of the flies” types chaining me to my loom and you to some room with lots of bandages around.

    Let’s vow to smite those rapscallions anyhow… :smile:

  7. Faire,
    Nice to see your name again.
    Hoping the New Year brings back many old faces, and a lot of new ones to the Trail.

  8. And Renee, I started practicing long ago when we had to do a lot of improvising with our equipment.

  9. Benevolent Billionaires.
    Mentioning Soros in that story is wickedly delicious.
    True, too, the premise: Call out those who talk the talk to walk the walk. Hypocrisy is a two-way street. No free ride, bub.

    Occupy This.

  10. Damnit! I hate seeing my comments in the sidebar. Please, no more than two thumbs for me! I like to know I’m not talking to myself, but save your excess thumbs for those in need!

    Mr. C., how do you rectify your espousal of Jeffersonian ideals (evidenced by your Independence Day tributes to him), with the fact that he adamantly advocated civilian gun-rights?

    Also, I realize that a popular response is that the “founding fathers” could have NEVER envisioned the technological capability of 21st century firearms, but I reject that, because 18th century guns killed just the same, medicine was primitive, asymmetrical warfare existed, and they were remarkably prescient about many other societal developments way before they happened.

  11. wacky idea here but fun to imagine

    If you read the article, it said that Cerberus would stand to double their investment in the event of a sale. Crying all the way to the bank.

    If there’s a market for them, someone else will make them.

  12. Oh, and I realize they mean to do well, but myopic, reactionary bleeding-hearts are now engaged in a concerted effort to criminalize mental illness. The general sentiment went from “let’s help the mentally ill get help” to “let’s throw the mentally ill in jail and search their houses”, in about three days. Scary.

    Thank God cigarettes are still legal. Smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.

  13. check out the Bushmaster print ad I found, posted above — Ha, they’re selling exactly what Mudcat was talking about: “the only reason people buy them is they look bad. I can only guess the reason they sell is wusses buy ‘em, cuddle ‘em, feel powerful, and get an erection or something”

  14. Oh, and that Scalia calls himself a “textualist”(abiding by the letter of the law, rather than the surmised intentions of the writer of the law), and then I read that he made the same argument (D.C. v. Heller) concerning the contemporary technological asymmetry of weaponry between citizens and government, that I mentioned (so that I could pre-emptively reject it) above. Way to undermine your self-professed judicial philosophy, Antonin!

  15. cuomo’s

    but that’s for them to determine

    probably refers to re-designing and de-militarizing the look of their products so that they fall outside whatever congress bans. just a matter of a little tuck here and there without changing anything much except the macho value.

  16. intersting they would name the gun for the western hemi’s longest snake in the grass. the following from online encyc britannica reminds me of some of our congress critters who no doubt really get off on them:

    The bushmaster is a pit viper (subfamily Crotalinae). Infrared pits, located between the eyes and nostrils, are used to “smell” prey, which consists mostly of small rodents. Prey is swallowed head-first, but the snake will bite and then release larger or more dangerous prey. In this type of attack, their eyes and pits are well protected by folds of skin.

    A bushmaster may coil for several weeks at one site, waiting to ambush prey along routes of travel, such as fallen limbs, buttresses of trees, or trails along the ground. This snake can survive on fewer than 10 large meals per year. It is the only pit viper in the Americas to lay eggs…

  17. consider your man card reissued

    selling to those who weren’t issued the card to begin with.
    love to see their tagline for a derringer… it’s not the size that makes the man?

  18. love to see their tagline for a derringer

    “Keep it in your pants”

  19. The California Teachers Association pension sold off their gun stocks immediately after Sandy Hook..and I think others did as well.

  20. Champ: Scalia calls himself a “textualist”(abiding by the letter of the law, rather than the surmised intentions of the writer of the law).

    We call it Black Letter Law.

    Basically a nonsense position designed to justify illogical reasoning.

    Nonsense because all spoken languages are living with meanings changing as the years pass. That being so, even black letter law words need interpretation through reference to current usage which then negates the concept.

    The question is the extent of referencing to understand the words. It follows that the less referencing, the less understanding of the legal concept. Adherence to black letter law is done by those who are either too lazy to research an answer or the person already has a preconceived position and doesn’t want to justify that prejudice. In both circumstances, it is bad law.

    Good catch on that Champ. Scalia is the best judge that big business and their money can buy.

  21. A Gun Ban That Misfired

    “The gun ban had an unintended effect: It emboldened criminals because they knew that law-abiding District residents were unarmed and powerless to defend themselves. Violent crime increased after the law was enacted, with homicides rising to 369 in 1988, from 188 in 1976 when the ban started. By 1993, annual homicides had reached 454.

    In 2007, a panel for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled that the city’s gun ban was unconstitutional. Senior Judge Laurence H. Silberman wrote in the majority opinion that “the black market for handguns in the District is so strong that handguns are readily available (probably at little premium) to criminals. It is asserted, therefore that the D.C. gun control laws irrationally prevent only law abiding citizens from owning handguns.”

    Since the gun ban was struck down, murders in the District have steadily gone down, from 186 in 2008 to 88 in 2012, the lowest number since the law was enacted in 1976. The decline resulted from a variety of factors, but losing the gun ban certainly did not produce the rise in murders that many might have expected.

    ………. Any sense of safety and security would be a false one.”

  22. Obama owns the debt now

    “President Obama, the Democrats, and plenty of Republicans in Congress, would like it if you’d spend the next few weeks talking about gun control. That’s because when you are, you’re not talking about the country’s financial situation.”

  23. Chloe, that article is utter BS, the handgun-in-home ban’s demise had nothing to do with DC’s drop in gun violence. There are plenty of strict limits still in place which are making a difference.

    As a concerned homeowner I have paid close attention to this and frequently discuss it with my local police folk (which I recommend to all, engage them, they like it).

    In fact, our strict gun laws, despite the one stuck down, have really helped.

    Much of the decline in our stats, however, about real estate trends driving the violence to suburbs like Prince George’s County. Whole city blocks have been refashioned, drug dens razed, a Major League Baseball stadium built in place of urban blight, high-rise public housing replaced by less-dense garden style apartments. Growing wealth in DC has pushed impoverished communities farther away from the city center.

    Not saying these are good things, I’m disturbed by these trends, but definitely a factor in curbing violence.

    Also, we’ve seen better law enforcement techniques in the city last few years. Improved technology helps officers pinpoint gunfire, even before a 911 call, and share information faster (thanks to massive infusions of Homeland Security funding). A police unit dedicated to seizing illegal firearms was re-established and prosecutors, benefiting from the city’s strict gun laws, routinely ask, successfully, that defendants arrested on weapons charges be held without bond — in part, to head off possible retaliation. Stronger community relationships mean detectives have developed better sources on the street and witness cooperation.

    In other words, DC should not be used as an example for anything in this debate. Since 9/11 we have been an armed camp virtually under martial law.

    Unfortunately, don’t think it’s economically feasible to duplicate elsewhere. Still, I feel much safer, and haven’t noticed any loss of liberty.

  24. Craig, are you positing that the gentrification of DC has meant that the death rate has become a SEP (someone else’s problem) rather than an actual decline per se.

  25. Chloe, I agree with the commentary. The “Gun Debate”, such that it is, is just bread and circuses, or for the politicians, a dog and pony show. The rest of us in the global economy are appalled by American financial cupidity.

  26. Bill, yes, the gentrification of DC has shifted the violence elsewhere. That has definitely been a factor. More so than any BS argument about our handgun-in-home ban’s demise actually helping matters.

  27. just sayin, I live in a city run by Congress (even tho we have no voting representation there), so I’d warn against using us as any sort of model for anything.

  28. Dismissing this gun debate as “dog and pony” is crap. There is a real chance here to make a difference. I’m fed up with the slaughter. And yes we can multi-task other issues.

  29. Chloe, this is a debate not an argument, so I welcome all views. Of course I agreed with inviting kids to Obama’s event. Saving the next generation from this madness is what it’s all about. That’s why all of us, no matter what age, ought to be trying to make this world a better place — and quit lapsing into nothing-can-be-done mode. I, for one, won’t stand for it.

  30. Chloe, both Craig and I are old time romantics. So are many other TM’s I’m glad to say. We have a shared passion and it is through discussion that our passion is realised -- setting the world to rights.

    At Uni back in 71, we would all hunch around a table in the library coffee shop, smoke and argue politics. We rectified the world’s problems then and then became the old men causing the problem without realising it.

    When I set up a community radio station, one group was the most dangerous -- the over 70’s. They had plenty of experience and nothing to lose. Another decade and I am in that group.

    In the meantime, we try to erase the impact of our footprint with passion. :grin:

  31. ” this is a debate not an argument”

    You know Craig, I’ve never thought of it as a debate or an argument. I’ve always considered it a discussion.

    But then I have my own words for everything. Sometimes I feel I must speak a different language.

  32. Chloe, her indoors likes some of the passion, especially when flowers appear. The other day when we were going out on our date, I put a whole lot of rose petals under the passenger’s sunvisor so when she checked herself in the mirror, she was showered in petals. Romance is really important despite a long term relationship.

  33. Bill, you have your own language even though it sounds a lot like ours. When you write “indoors” are you referring to your significant other? You used it the other night and confused me Here in the south, where I live, indoors means…not outside the house.

  34. chloe, “discussion” a good descriptor, for sure. but not relentless agreement, which can be boring, altho it has its place. Sometimes I like a good old-fashioned and yet respectful debate where we learn from each other. That’s my favorite thing here.

  35. The difference between argument and debate is more philosophical rather than one of common language usage. For the ordinary person, debate and argument are practically synonymous but to a philologist, they are worlds apart.

    Argument

    An argument is a conclusion derived from a series of propositions.

    Here is Argument #1

    Proposition # 1. If All Republicans believe in holding the global economy to ransom over the US Debt Ceiling.

    Proposition # 2. And John Andrew Boehner is a Republican.

    Conclusion (Argument #1). Therefore John Andrew Boehner believes in holding the global economy to ransom over the US Debt Ceiling.

    Here is Argument #2

    Proposition # 1. If All Democrats believe in profligate government spending.

    Proposition # 2. And Barack Hussein Obama II is a Democrat.

    Conclusion (Argument #2). Therefore Barack Hussein Obama II believes in profligate government spending.

    Now to Debate.

    A debate is when people present contrary arguments in an attempt to create a new understanding for both parties to the debate.

    Argument #1 (Thesis) John Andrew Boehner believes in holding the global economy to ransom over the US Debt Ceiling.

    Argument #2 (Antithesis) Barack Hussein Obama II believes in profligate government spending.

    Resolution (Synthesis)

    The debt ceiling is increased with the trade off of spending cuts to the federal budget.

    I hope that sort of explains the idea in everyman’s language. ;-)

  36. Carol, interesting thought. The use of “her indoors” is more a classical reference to the sort of “Downton Abbey world” where men dealt with the “outdoors” and their partners were dealing with life within the household, or “indoors”. So “her indoors” is my dearly beloved wife, lover, mistress and significant other in my life. And they are all one and the same person. However, since she has her own identity, it is not for me to disclose her name or other identifying features unless it is with her consent. It’s one of those internet things. The result is that for brevity and clarity, I use “her indoors.” :smile:

  37. Really good advice:get to know and support the police officers in your neighborhood. I’ve seen a lot of stuff go on around here. About 18 yrs ago my end of the street was a notorious stolen car dumping area. Wake up in the morning and see cars stripped bare -- literally! A couple Sunday nights we had a delightful group who decided setting them on fire, too, would be entertaining. Must say, it was an oddly mesmerizing scene. Just glad the gas tanks never blew. Replacing all my window glass would not have been fun. Back then, the police didn’t put too much effort in patrolling the street. I think it was a gentlemen’s agreement that what happened was outta sight, outta mind. At least it could be isolated.
    Then a couple years later, woke up to pounding at the door. A policeman was standing there, with a scared looking man. “Apologize to the lady”,the cop said. “I’m sorry”, the stranger said. “I thought this was the crack house.” “OK,uh,thanks”, I answered. The policeman told me he saw this guy casing the house and going to my door. He recognized the man as a neighborhood junkie. The Officer got out of his car and stopped the situation from going any further. And, he made the man apologize! For the first time I felt like someone was caring.
    The newer generation of police officers, like the one mentioned, have been a major reason why things are getting much better in my area. They care -- and the community sensed this and is more cooperative in helping the police solve crimes and bust the bad guys. The human touch goes along way in fighting crime.

  38. sj, interesting story. yes, especially for those of us in urban areas engaging your local cops on the beat is hugely helpful. couple years ago I began noticing strange characters constantly walking back and forth thru the alley behind TM headquarters. discussed it with local police officer I had come to know, and before long they figured out they were mules for a drug dealer nearby, arrested everybody and now they’re gone. still see the officer now and then, we’ve become pals. that’s how keeping your neighborhood safe works.

    ok now i’m really gone, David’s dinner gonna be late

  39. Did y’all hear that Dennis Kucinich is joining Fox News? That ought to be a hoot.

  40. Crime in the United States

    In contrast to the recent sharp decrease in the homicide rate, the rates of other violent crimes and of property crimes, although they have continuously decreased recently, have decreased at a considerably slower pace than in the 1990s.[12] Overall, the crime rate in the U.S. was the same in 2009 as in 1968, with the homicide rate being roughly the same as in 1964. Violent crime overall, however, is still at the same level as in 1973, despite having decreased steadily since 1991.[13]
    Crime Rate Violent crime rate

    Chart easier to read on wiki link
    Homicide rate Property crime rate
    1960 160.9 5.1 1,726
    1961 158.1 4.8 1,747
    1963 168.2 4.6 2,012
    1965 200.2 5.1 2,249
    1967 253.2 6.2 2,736
    1969 328.7 7.3 3,351
    1971 396.0 8.6 3,769
    1973 417.4 9.4 3,737
    1975 487.8 9.6 4,811
    1977 475.9 8.8 4,602
    1979 548.9 9.8 5,017
    1981 594.3 9.8 5,264
    1983 537.7 8.3 4,637
    1985 556.6 8.0 4,650
    1987 609.7 8.3 4,940
    1989 663.1 8.7 5,078
    1991 758.2 9.8 5,140
    1993 747.1 9.5 4,740
    1995 684.5 8.2 4,591
    1997 611.0 6.8 4,316
    1999 523.0 5.7 3,744
    2001 504.5 5.6 3,658
    2003 475.8 5.7 3,591
    2005 469.0 5.6 3,432
    2007 472.0 5.7 3,277
    2009 429.4 5.0 2,946
    2010 404.5 4.8 2,909
    2011 386.3 4.7 2,941

  41. Crime Statistics > Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (most recent) by state
    Rank States Amount
    # 1 District of Columbia: 31.2
    # 2 Alaska: 20
    # 3 Louisiana: 19.5
    # 4 Wyoming: 18.8
    # 5 Arizona: 18
    = 6 Nevada: 17.3
    = 6 Mississippi: 17.3
    # 8 New Mexico: 16.6
    # 9 Arkansas: 16.3
    # 10 Alabama: 16.2
    # 11 Tennessee: 15.4
    # 12 West Virginia: 14.7
    # 13 Montana: 14.5
    # 14 South Carolina: 13.8
    # 15 North Carolina: 13.6
    # 16 Georgia: 13.4
    = 17 Kentucky: 13.1
    = 17 Oklahoma: 13.1
    = 19 Missouri: 12.3
    = 19 Idaho: 12.3
    # 21 Indiana: 11.7
    = 22 Colorado: 11.5
    = 22 Maryland: 11.5
    = 24 Florida: 11.1
    = 24 Virginia: 11.1
    # 26 Texas: 11
    # 27 Michigan: 10.9
    # 28 Oregon: 10.5
    # 29 Pennsylvania: 9.9
    # 30 California: 9.8
    = 31 Illinois: 9.7
    = 31 Kansas: 9.7
    = 31 Utah: 9.7
    # 34 Vermont: 9.6
    = 35 Ohio: 9.3
    = 35 Washington: 9.3
    = 37 Delaware: 9.1
    = 37 North Dakota: 9.1
    = 39 Wisconsin: 8.1
    = 39 Nebraska: 8.1
    # 41 South Dakota: 7.9
    # 42 Iowa: 6.7
    # 43 Maine: 6.5
    # 44 Minnesota: 6
    # 45 New Hampshire: 5.8
    = 46 Rhode Island: 5.1
    = 46 New York: 5.1
    # 48 New Jersey: 4.9
    # 49 Connecticut: 4.3
    # 50 Massachusetts: 3.1
    # 51 Hawaii:

    …. just doin’ my best not to be naive.

  42. Dear Craig --
    My ole’ friend, many thanks for your kind words, it is your cocktail party, and I am on a date in the corner table with ‘Debbie Downer’ .

  43. On a better note :
    The History Channel is doing a series that is really amazing , given that fat people, eating frogs is big ratings these days.

  44. The History Channel is doing a series that is really amazing ,

    Teddy signed over 1,000 Executive Orders, one of which saved the Grand Canyon from the Khoch Brothers.

  45. Here is a more recent chart (2011), note the number of states with least permissive (strictest) gun laws at the lower end of death rates:

    #1, Mississippi
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 18.3
    Permissive gun laws: 4th out of 50

    #2, Arizona
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 15
    Permissive gun laws: 1st out of 50

    #3, Alaska
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 17.6
    Permissive gun laws: 11th out of 50

    #4, Arkansas
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 15.1
    Permissive gun laws: 7th out of 50

    #5, Louisiana
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 19.9
    Permissive gun laws: 23rd out of 50

    #6, New Mexico
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 15
    Permissive gun laws: 6th out of 50

    #7, Alabama
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 17.6
    Permissive gun laws: 27th out of 50

    #8, Nevada
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 16.2
    Permissive gun laws: 22nd out of 50

    #9, Montana
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 14.5
    Permissive gun laws: 10th out of 50

    #10, Wyoming
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 14.5
    Permissive gun laws: 8th out of 50

    #11, Kentucky
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 14.4
    Permissive gun laws: 5th out of 50

    #12, West Virginia
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 14.8
    Permissive gun laws: 25th out of 50

    #13, Tennessee
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 15
    Permissive gun laws: 31st out of 50

    #14, Oklahoma
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 13.4
    Permissive gun laws: 17th out of 50

    #15, Idaho
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 12.5
    Permissive gun laws: 2nd out of 50

    #16, Georgia
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 13.1
    Permissive gun laws: 13th out of 50

    #17, Missouri
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 12.9
    Permissive gun laws: 12th out of 50

    #18, South Carolina
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 13.4
    Permissive gun laws: 20th out of 50

    #19, North Carolina
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 12.3
    Permissive gun laws: 28th out of 50

    #20, Florida
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 12.5
    Permissive gun laws: 41st out of 50

    #21, Kansas
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.5
    Permissive gun laws: 14th out of 50

    #22, Indiana
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.6
    Permissive gun laws: 21st out of 50

    #23, Texas
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.7
    Permissive gun laws: 32nd out of 50

    #24, Michigan
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.9
    Permissive gun laws: 39th out of 50

    #25, Maryland
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 12.1
    Permissive gun laws: 44th out of 50

    #26, Colorado
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.4
    Permissive gun laws: 24rd out of 50

    #27, Pennsylvania
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.7
    Permissive gun laws: 40th out of 50

    #28, Virginia
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.7
    Permissive gun laws: 35th out of 50

    #29, Utah
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 9.5
    Permissive gun laws: 18th out of 50

    #30, Vermont
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8.4
    Permissive gun laws: 3rd out of 50

    #31, Oregon
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 10.4
    Permissive gun laws: 30th out of 50

    #32, North Dakota
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8.9
    Permissive gun laws: 15th out of 50

    #33, Ohio
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 9.6
    Permissive gun laws: 29th out of 50

    #34, Maine
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8.1
    Permissive gun laws: 9th out of 50

    #35, Delaware
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 9.2
    Permissive gun laws: 33rd out of 50

    #36, Wisconsin
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8.7
    Permissive gun laws: 34th out of 50

    #37, Nebraska
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8
    Permissive gun laws: 19th out of 50

    #38, South Dakota
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 6.5
    Permissive gun laws: 16th out of 50

    #39, Washington
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8.5
    Permissive gun laws: 37th out of 50

    #40, California
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 9
    Permissive gun laws: 50th out of 50

    #41, New Hampshire
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 5.9
    Permissive gun laws: 26th out of 50

    #42, Minnesota
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 6.6
    Permissive gun laws: 36th out of 50

    #43, Illinois
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 8
    Permissive gun laws: 45th out of 50

    #44, Iowa
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 5.3
    Permissive gun laws: 38th out of 50

    #45, New York
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 5.1
    Permissive gun laws: 43rd out of 50

    #46, New Jersey
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 5.2
    Permissive gun laws: 49th out of 50

    #47, Connecticut
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 4.3
    Permissive gun laws: 46th out of 50

    #48, Rhode Island
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 3.5
    Permissive gun laws: 42nd out of 50

    #49, Massachusetts
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 3.6
    Permissive gun laws: 48th out of 50

    #50, Hawaii
    Gun deaths per 100,000: 2.8
    Permissive gun laws: 47th out of 50

    — Daily Beast

    Not sure why DC left out of this list (oh, maybe its because we’re not a state, have no voting rights in Congress, taxation without representation, all that jazz)

  46. CBob, yep that History Channel presidents series is great. watching Teddy now. altho I was very annoyed last night at their dismissive treatment of Grover Cleveland. he always gets screwed in these things

  47. The Drought rippled today . 2,100 people lost their jobs at Plainview, Texas. Cargill is closing their 42 year old meat packing plant. Effective Feb. 1st . The reason ? Texas can’t supply enough cattle.

  48. CBob, yep that History Channel presidents series is great.

    Back in the late 90’s my mother would complain about the “All Hitler Channel” …. She was a great lover of what we have just seen. And lately they are the fat man eating frogs channel.

    Frankly, I am shocked by it’s quality.

  49. So Craig and Chloe, given the statistical evidence we at Trail Mix are able to articulate The Law of Gun Control.

    The number of gunshot deaths in a given precinct is directly proportional to permissive gun ownership laws.

    This directly contradicts the NRA Law of Gun Ownership which states:

    The number of gunshot deaths in a given precinct is inversely proportional to the number of guns held by people within that precinct.

    All as we need now is Congress to repeal the latter and invoke the former to guarantee a higher level of community safety.

  50. And an update on our situation in Canberra. It is 40C with a strong westerly breeze. This very day, 10 years ago, under similar conditions, we lost 520 houses and 18 people. The only difference between then and now was an out of control fire racing in from the west.

  51. CBob, I know a producer at History Channel who is probably sick to his stomach listening to me yell at him about that very thing, tho he privately agrees, along with many of his colleagues, that HC in grave danger of screwing their mission. Problem, as he explained, is that, like other channels of its type they mostly buy programming from outside producers and the frog-eating crap (as you perfectly put it) is way cheaper than the quality stuff like the president series we’re watching.

  52. Craig --
    My doom & gloom, is in the middle of a debate about the murder of 20 six year old children.

  53. coloradobob says: Craig --
    My doom & gloom, is in the middle of a debate about the murder of 20 six year old children.

    I hear ya, why i’m so determined they not just become another list in wikipedia’s dust bin

  54. This week in China , a fire broke-out in a furniture factory. It took 3 hours to see it. The air was so thick.

  55. Craig and Bob, I gave up watching History Channel for that very reason. A decade ago, there were good programs which meant I was a dedicated devotee. Not anymore. Not interested in packing space wars or how many crawfish a southerner can catch with his bare hands. Yawwwn. It is our demographic that the HC should be programming towards rather than lifestyle pap. We have the money. Trouble is we are too discriminating and cynical to purchase any of the crap sold in the advertising that supports the shows.

  56. In the same week the Australians added 2 colors to their heat map. If one looks at that day.
    The only place ‘cool’ was at the beach. For the entire country.

    A true “Heat Island” except it’s all of Australian.

  57. CBob, can we make a deal? For every few climate-change horror stories you relay (and we need to hear them, not arguing that) can you give us just one suggestion for what we can do in our personal lives or nationally that might help matters, even if you think nothing can help? Just askin

  58. Craig --
    Want a solution ?

    A carbon tax . Now, let’s us move that through the lower house.

    After we solve gun control, and Roe v Wade.

  59. Bill, do try to catch the “Ultimate Guide to the Presidents” Bob referenced and now running, and also the recent “Men Who Built America” series about robber barons — very much up to the old History Channel standard

  60. We have a bit of experience regarding carbon tax. But seeing as seppos are a bit resentful about being told that people outside the US can actually think up good ideas that work, I’ll take a pass on that one.

  61. Really, with the thumbs? Really?! Ugh.

    Hey, “H2″ (History Channel 2) is what the old “History Channel” used to be, if you’re looking for that type of programming. The “Military Channel” is good for history stuff, too.

    Also, one should interpret gun-death statistics with the consideration that they sometimes include suicides, which could be misleading.

    Ok, as a repercussion of all this flippant, cavalier, hedonistic thumb-flaunting, I’m not commenting again until Nash 2.0 does. Have a good something, or other.

  62. Craig --
    It’s a monkey wedding, and the groom’s family hurls feces at the guests.

  63. Yep Champ my other favs are H2 and Military Channel (luv “An Officer and a Movie”)

    you so right about Nash, sending my email posse out to look for him now

  64. Well it’s POETS Day so I’m off till termorra.

    Downloading “Men Who Built America” -- takes time for the Oz HC to get these filums.

  65. you so right about Nash, sending my email posse out to look for him now

    Yes, nothing like an like an up lifting word from the woods in Maine.

    Here he comes, dressed like a dancer.

    Our commie friend in Maine.

  66. From another thread --

    It’s 5pm, & Sydney’s temp was 46.8’C today.

    It’s 106F in Sydney.

  67. State news agency Xinhua reported Monday that a fire in a 10,700 square foot factory in China’s Zhejiang province went unnoticed for 3 hours as locals couldn’t tell the difference between the smoke and the smog blanketing the area. By the time anyone noticed, the fire was out of control.

  68. Make no mistake, this was a furniture factory (10,700 sq. ft, ) , it burnt for 3 days before anyone could see a problem.

  69. I am a shaman , let us bring down the pox , on the Koch Brothers.
    May they die alone . With thieves from their family ready to cut up their carcass.

  70. those guys are so rich they probably got pox insurance.

    but I feel certain the long knives are being sharpened by all and sundry related to them….law of the jungle and all that.

  71. those guys are so rich they probably got pox insurance.

    True, but they don’t have karma insurance. When it comes to that ………. It’s a crap shoot.

    Try and Go buy Karma Insurance. After you stocked-up on pox insurance.

  72. When I dropped in for a visit this morning, first thing I saw again was…CONSIDER YOUR MAN CARD REISSUED. Talk about subtle, huh. So much advertisement is designed to manipulate. The NRA has been going to town with their manipulation. They have pulled out all the good stuff. They are trying to appeal to your inner duhhhh, macho.

    I really don’t think it will work this time. Actually, I think those who are ranting… don’t take my guns or I’ll kill ya, are looking pretty wimpy and crazy and the NRA wants to make dang sure if your crazy, your on a list. I’m afraid for them, that many of their members may have just made that list.

    I don’t think any of this macho stuff has ever had any effects on you dudes here at TM. One thing I extra special like about you dudes here is that you aren’t insecure about your manliness. Maybe a dudette might need a mucho hit every now and again but not you dudes. You will even yield to your inner “indoors”. By that I mean your inner lady. Bill calls us “indoors”

    I see macho as being protective but not protective by standing guard at the door with an AK whatever. Protective includes nurturing, taking care of us when we have the flu, and even wearing a nurse’s uniform if you have to. Manliness includes cooking up the family meal and I think we have much better guy chefs here than girl chefs. I’ve been very impressed with how protective you guys can be. You are all real men in my book!

  73. Karma insurance. Cute. I’m with ya Sturge. I’ve always considered karma when I do anything, especially when I have time to ponder before acting. Seems like my karma is always hanging over me, just waiting for me to step over the line.

  74. Sturg --
    It’s not the pissin’& moanin’ , …….. it’s standing back-up again.

    Which is a great song line.

  75. I don’t know C-Bob. Maybe there is karma insurance and it is extremely expensive and not even available to most of us regular folks.

    What explains why all the rich corps/people seem to get away with all kinds of horrible crap and us regular people pay dearly for things thousands of times less significant. They are too big to fail, too big to punish. They must have that expensive karma insurance. That’s it. That explains it. You’re a genus C-Bob.

  76. Sturg --

    I’ve been all over the country
    Every where a man can sin
    It’s not the pissin’& moanin’ , …
    it’s the standing back-up again

    5 more limes, and we got a Billboard hit.

  77. it’s standing back up again’s
    the hardest work there is
    when the knees won’t straighten
    and the back won’t bend
    and the walls are caving in.

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