And that young lady joins the 8% who have expressed pro gun control support to a public official.
From the same poll from Pew research center
58% support banning semi automatic weapons.
Not just banning the sale of new assault weapons. The public is way out ahead of the politicians here. But if only 8% express their opinion……..
The link to the poll quoted above
Boys and girls please… mama and daddy love you very much and we don’t want to take away your toys, promise, we just want to make sure you use them responsibly.
That’s how I feel with all of us trying to talk some sense into so many..the NRA, some of the lawmakers, some of you big kids here. I feel like a parent trying to talk to a bunch of dang adolescences. I’m sure most of you have been in that situation a few times with your kids. Give me a few hints on how you eventually got through to them. We just want what’s good for you and the other children.
I wish everyone involved in this no, no, no, would step back for just one reasonable minite and listen to yourselves. Maybe pretend like you’re the parent again trying to reason with your teenage son or daughter. Brings up some scary memories doesnt it?
No I didn’t have any kids, that’s why I spent 23 years teaching at the university and another 11 taking care of inmates. Let me tell you…that with inmates, it didn’t matter if they were 17 or 77, most of them acted like teenagers. They seemed to be stuck in that developmental stage So I’ve raised more kids than most of you have. Well, I tried to. And dang it, it wasn’t easy but I think I earned the right to talk Mama here did some crying and some praying.
Many of us representing the parents right now have asked the question..”what are you so afraid of?” or “why is this toy so important to you?” I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings here because I love y’all, I really do. But if I’m honest with ya…your answers stink! Put on your big boy or girl, but mostly boy, hat and look at them. If you were the parents, talking to your kids, would you buy any of that crap? I don’t think so.
Some of those children are acting more mature than many of the adults.
The second amendment excuse really doesn’t do it for me. First of all, it was written before mega weapons were available. Second, those rights only apply when they don’t put people at serious risk.
We have the right to free speech but when that free speech could seriously harm people, the right doesn’t apply. So, it should also be with the second amendment.
As a responsible parent, you often tried to reason with your kids but when that failed, you just laid down the law. You did what you thought was best. That’s what I hope Obama does.
And it is interesting that it is the children who are leading him. The faces and memories of the children who died and the sincere requests of those who haven’t yet. It is those children who will lead us. I just hope and pray that the big kids will listen to them also.
Sorry about my punctuation. I’ve been having to write on my iPhone and at my age, it’s hard to see what I’m writing. Sometimes the auto-correct doesn’t work. Sometimes it tries to write something entirely different than what I’m trying to write.
a) It was a wonderful speech & I admire the Prez & Veep for pushing forward on this issue.
b) As Yoda advised, “There is no try; there is only do, or not do.”
c) Enough with the optics! The Prez using kids as a backdrop looked both ridiculous & dangerous. Whenever someone says they are doing something for the kids, it’s not really for the kids; it’s a tool to deflect nay-sayers. It also looks weak if his intent was, instead, to act as if the children were driving the bus behind laws to govern adults.
Clarifying the definition of “mentally ill” to ensure that individuals with a serious mental illness are prohibited from purchasing guns
craig’s quote from last thread topic
the meat of the nut
…so to speak
I respectfully disagree Blue. I think one of the reasons that this serious problem did finally get some traction was because it involved a bunch of beautiful, innocent children. Children just going to school, many for the first year of their schooling. They all seemed to love going to that school and that school seemed to provide a very loving environment. Parents said some wouldn’t even stay home when they were sick.
It’s really harder to ignore those children like we did all the other incidents of gun violence that also involved young people. I’m sure it is little Grace’s picture hanging on his personal office wall talking to him. Those kids, living and dead are talking to all of us. They want to be heard.
The president had those kids there because they did write to him and ask for his help. I didn’t see him as using them as much as I see that most of them were glad to be used if it would help.
You know, we had cap guns when I was little. We had shows like, “Gunsmoke” on TV & there were shootings, but there was no gore to them.
Then one day, it was no longer acceptable for kids to have cap guns.
But then, someone got the bright idea that seeing gore would make us more sensitive to violence; that old-fashioned TV was what was desensiting us to the problem.
Then the worst thing happened. Pong, Pac Man & Tetris gave way to Halo & Call Of Duty.
It’s bad enough when TVs are babysitters, but when the kids are a little older & then program their brains (that is what they are doing) with violent video games, it’s not a good thing.
But there is more than that, they have violent video games in other countries.
They do, however, have different social structures. Ours is so disconnected; it’s sad. They do not, however, have access to huge caches of assault weapons.
What we have here, is a cocktail for horrible events. Locking up the liquor cabinet is the first step.
I would also LOVE IT if TV ads for violent movies & violent TV shows did not air when I’m watching a sitcom or singing show. Not only am I NOT their target audience, I can’t imagine that anyone watching something funny and/or happily entertaining wants to assaulted with 30 seconds of visual violence. (It must be more shocking/effective, or they wouldn’t do it, but it ticks me the heck off when they do.) So, shame on Hollywood, as well. Shame on them for giving awards to people who make violent garbage, as well.
Garbage in, garbage out.
question: should soc sec agency turn over to data base names of all who are on disability (based on mental problems)
ct -- I agree that the tragedy at Sandy Hook was the final straw & I think we all get that. My heart breaks for those poor children & the families left behind.
I just think the optics for the speech were too heavy-handed. Those that are & have been for gun control, well, we didn’t need to see the children trotted out. Those that are against any new regulations are not going to be swayed by the presence of children & the few on the fence (I can’t imagine how they are there, but they seem to be) well…if I think it looks like the children are being used (and I’m in favor of more regulations), think of what that must look like to those opposed to it, or, to those waivering few.
I guess that I just never think it looks good to hold up something or someone weak & cute; it looks silly and/or untrustworthy. I stand by my call of poor optics.
I don’t know. Is it already done in some capacity? For instance, if they actually filled out the paperwork to get a gun, would it show up on a back-ground check? I think it might.
But, would they gain access to a gun another way? There are so many undocumented firearms out there. I’m in favor of new regulations, but I also think so many horses are already out of the barn that it’s still a problem.
Would they be turned over for mental competency with regard to anything else?
A friend’s relative has autism, gets a social security check, stays with a relative, has a license to drive and access to a car. He also has a temper, is unpredictable & I would be terrified if he had access to a gun.
Would his social security check be tied to the reason he is getting it?
Anyway, I suppose the important thing isn’t what it looks like, it’s just that something actually gets accomplished this time. I just hope the way it looks does not backfire & make it more difficult.
The mental health factor is going to be a really hairy one. How many of us might have taken an antidepressant at one time in our lives or still do? Is depression going to be a criteria for not allowing access to gun? That would eliminate almost all the guns.
Poor people, too often, don’t have any access to mental health care. Many who will eventually find themselves in the criminal justice system are poor.
Lanza seemed to have lots of interaction with mental health but all of them, including his family and friends, judged him as being the one who would be vulnerable to injury.
Will the fear of being targeted for losing liberties keep people from seeking mental health treatment? Not good.
There are already laws that require mental health professionals to report any patient who threatens harm to self or others. The Tuscon shooter was one of them but he wasn’t reported to the proper authorities. I think his shrink did try but it fell through the cracks.
Too much going on here and too little time.
Patd, glad you are back among us. You have been missed.
Jack, That nurses outfit is just, well…just precious. Good on you, hope your wife is feeling better.
Yes, it may be that HIPAA (1996) may need to be changed to allow disclosure of PHI for patients with a MH diagnosis and treatment. They have special protection under that act along with substance abuse patients and pregnancy patients (and maybe broader OB/GYN patients -- I can’t really recall that part).
And Jack, I’m impressed that you are secure enough in your masculinity to do that outfit. Let me fill you in on a few things that all of us nurses learned over the years. Lose the hat. They are germy and it’s hard to keep them in short hair. I had to try to walk like a model to keep mine on. Did wonders for my posture.
I lead the way, in my area, for getting rid of those dumb, germy hats. That was when I was just a whippersnapper. It didn’t make me very popular with my superiors. It was also not an easy fight, almost a hard as this gun battle. Most often any change is. The old nurses thought that it was a significant symbol of who we were as nurses. When I saw the cashiers and other workers at” What a Burger” in Houston wearing the same shaped hat as the hats we wore at our nursing school, that argument lost it’s meaning.
Next, lose the skirt. Most nurses who are on the front lines don’t wear skirts anymore. They wear those scrubs, many which have pants. We didn’t want our butt crack showing when we bent down to empty a urine bag. And the last thing we needed was to turn on one of our sick patients.
But then again, if you put of a pic of yourself in scrubs, it just wouldn’t be as cute.
The video states the pertinent argument. It should be hard to buy a gun. For everyone. Deflecting the argument to what defines “mental illness” provides a cover for the obvious:the very nature of owning a gun, no matter if legally/illegally obtained, is exhibiting antisocial behavior. The sport/hunting aspect ties in to this also, as using a gun to engage in these activities usually ends in the conscious act of killing.
The Australian gun safety legislation requires not only a background check on the person buying the gun but for any persons they are closely associated with who have mental health issues --I’m not sure how it works but it is a part of the background check.
How many Trail Mixers are sharing these topics? I tweet them out to spread interest; had a conversation with a person from Michigan last night who saw the tweet & replied. Any time we can add new voices to the mix is healthy for everyone.Spread the word!
Yes KGC, that’s just another fly in the ointment re the mental health issue. We can’t do any family/friends, who frequent the house and hood, evaluation for everyone wanting to own a gun. And might not most of us qualify, in some way or other, as having a little mental issue every now and again?? And how do you predict who of us will in the future??
Same with video games and violent movies. They won’t influence stable people, but may very well influence those on the edge. So could how you were raised, if you had a fight with your boss or your spouse, etc, etc. You could link just about everything/anything to violence or triggering violence, even getting the wrong order at McDonalds and not finding out until you get home. That really sets me off.
It may not be the perfect solution but the ONLY thread that seems to run through EVERYTHING is that cold metal thing that bullets come flying out of and kill people, especially those that spit them out at an extremely rapid rate and high quantity.
Maybe our debate will not change any minds. I’m pretty stubborn, set in my ways, but it was something that Flatus said a while back that got me re-pondering the mental health aspect of it. If I can re-ponder something, anyone can… if they just try to keep an open mind.
And Flatus, I’ve pondered similar scenarios to what you presented yesterday. C-Bob certainly gives us enough to worry about.
If we do have to confront any of those scary scenarios then killing one another won’t be the answer. It will require that we all work together for a solution and to survive.
This biologist once explained how a single cell organism survives. It only survives because it has many parts, with different responsibilities, all working together for a common goal. Eliminate many or even any of those parts and the cell dies.
dystopian fantasies such as the one Flatus described yesterday seem to be all the rage at the moment. Lots of buzz about the Hunger Games books. Seems to be a lot of new television series based on the same theme.
Mankind has always been fascinated with this kind of stuff. Every religion is full of these kinds of stories… just look at the Bible. Or better yet… read Sturg’s posts about ancient times.
Girl, I have a subscription to Coast to Coast. I have also bought into the possibilities of those scenarios. Coreen teases me about that.
In my younger days, I would have found some to be an adventure and with my roughing it skills, you would have wanted me on your team. Now, if anything like that happens, please kill me first. I’d just be a burden on everyone.
pogo, thanks for bringing up hippa privacy protections.
va is another mh record amasser that an expanded backgroud data base could mine. if so employed would ptsd and brain injury cases or just the “danger to themselves or others” determine the nonsale.
with criminal records it’s a bit clearer cut and easier to identify the line and the data base is readily available. felons no get guns. but then what if a felon has his civil rights restored (in some states this is automatic upon completion of sentence… at least for voting purposes). but even there, is a perjuror or enron white collar crime type, aka felons, on the background nono list?
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