Iraq, What If We Had Stayed?

Pulitzer winner and Foreign Policy magazine blogger Tom Ricks is making sense, takes on claims that Iraq wouldn’t be in this mess if we had kept our troops there …

That’s nonsense. If we had the force there, what we’d be doing now is facing this question: Do we retreat ignominiously and get the troops out of the country, or do we use them in a way—or do we find ourselves forced to use them—in a way we don’t want to, supporting Maliki without reservation? Or do they just sit there inside their camp gates and everybody mocks the Americans for doing nothing? So I think by not having troops on the ground there it greatly simplified the issues for the United States and actually gave the United States more leverage rather than less.”

25 thoughts on “Iraq, What If We Had Stayed?”

  1. Woo, who?

    Pat, I posted this at the end of the last thread and will save you the trouble of clicking “previous”.

    Craig, re the Ricks article, well, duh. Oh, and how many more dead Americans would we have had to add to the current roll 4488 dead and 36710 dead and wounded? And for what US security advantage were those lives and limbs given?

    BTW, whether for political purposes or as a genuine admission, Hillary at least admits that she got it wrong when she took the “intel” at face value and voted to approve the RUMF. Bush remains silent and Chasshole remains defiant in his position as Bubba put it, that Obama hasn’t done enough to clean up the mess Bush and he made.

  2. This is off-topic but it is big news in Maine…

    Maine’s senior U.S. Senator, Republican Susan Collins, now supports gay marriage.

    Collins is one of the last of the “New England moderate Republicans” and she is running for re-election this year.

    Collins must have made a calculation that this change in position will work in her favor in the election. Maine’s voters, like voters everywhere else, have undergone a significant shift in their attitudes since the last time she ran, six years ago.

    Collins did NOT face a Tea Party primary challenger, as Maine is still too civilized a place for that sort of thing. We do have a Tea Party faction in Maine, but they are not as stupid as Tea Partiers elsewhere. They know that If (popular with voters) Collins was not the GOP senate candidate, the Democrat would probably win, a loss of one seat in the Senate for the GOP.

  3. First, Thanks to everybody who responded to my plea and made a donation it was a pleasant addition to the morning coffee. I will be sending each of you a personal email but not today, I got a party to do.
    BTW those donating get the privilege of knowing Jacks secret name. I trust you will use the knowledge wisely;-)
    Pat as to your question. I will try to keep everybody up to date with picture and copies of expenses. Trust is an issue.
    Or you could just come to the party and meet my neighbors. We’ve got a hide-a-bed
    Here is the invite

  4. Jack, I threw a few sheckles your way. Hope it’s a good party (but then again, what party isn’t?) Remember though, it’s kids – prolly should leave the Whiskey at home, Jack. 😉

  5. Tom Ricks is making sense.

    We won’t be seeing him on any of the Sunday morning shows.

  6. If only Tom Ricks had been listened to in the first place…

    Jack… party hardy…

    Rick was reading The Economist with breakfast this morning. He told me that according to their survey, that Americans are more anti-war today than they were after Vietnam. Anyone wanting to occupy the White House had better pay attention to that, IMO.

  7. Renee, I see that among many, but the moron class here doesn’t know what to make of their “Obama’s policies are BAD BAD BAD” position and their “glad we aren’t still in Iraq and Afghanistan” positions, so they cling to those two conflicting opinions. They can’t articulate any reconciliation of those two positions, so they just say Obama is bad and they disagree with his foreign policy. Oh, and Obama should be impeached because Rush says so (they think). Kinda reflects the conflicting opinions nationally about being out of the ME wars, agreeing with sending advisors to Iraq and negative foreign policy polls re: Obama. As for me, I’m glad we’re out and if seeing the prez have bad poll numbers as the price, I’ll take that. Oh, and don’t send teh 300 to Iraq – with or without abs airbrushed on them.

  8. “creationists have no problem with conflicting views”
    – Ms Cracker


    1.their god can make a rock so heavy that he can’t lift it,

    2. their god finished the universe in 6 days, and is continuing to finish it, forever.

    3. their god’s creation is perfect down to the very last birth defect.

  9. I wish Tom Ricks had spent more time in his book dealing with Iran’s spy achmed chalabi burrowing deeply into tenet/cheney/rumdumb/ “Intelligence”.

  10. Ain’t it funny how “New England moderate Republicans” cast their votes in the House and Senate exactly the same way that mcconnell and the boehner do ?

  11. KC, I grew up in the middle of the Bible Belt (my mom didn’t believe in evolution and my uncle was – may still be – a So. Baptist lay minister, and is a bible literalist), I live in a state where people still handle snakes in the backwoods churches. I’ve been around creationists about all my life (except when I escaped to ME/NH for 6 years). They can hold any number of conflicting beliefs on any one subject at any given time, and deny actual physical evidence to the contrary to do so.

  12. On “Hardball” tonight they are talking about how Obama (six years into his administration) is finally trying to fight back against GOP obstructionism.

    The consensus is that, if he had tried this years ago, it might have worked.

    Now it’s too late and he is already a lame duck.

  13. Vietnam … what if we had stayed?

    That’s easy to answer.

    We’d still be fighting.

  14. We’d still be losing.

    But, you lost more than I did. Nyah nyah nyah, nyah nyah.

  15. Oh, one more thing.

    I can’t remember what Hobby Lobby’s beef is.

    Does it worship foetuses or money ?

  16. Hobby Lobby? Idiots. (Sorry? nah) Richard Cizik has a great article at Huffpo about how a decision in favor of HL would not be a win in the long term for Evangelicals. He spent 30 years in government relations at the National Association for Evangelicals. He makes some good arguments that had not occurred to me. Worth a read.

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